(Los Alamitos, 1/11/11) (Gotta love the date–but just wait ten months ti’ 11/11/11!) As reported here last week, tonight’s 6 p.m. Rossmoor Community Services District meeting will be interrupted at 7 p.m. for a “workshop” featuring Los Alamitos Council Members Troy Edgar and Marilyn Poe in an effort to “provide clarity regarding their current intentions regarding Rossmoor.”
Other topics, according to former Long Beach and Los Alamitos City Manager and current OCSD General Manager Henry Taboada, “could include the stated position of Supervisor Moorlach that police services should be provided by Los Alamitos and the position of LAFCO that any approval of latent powers for additional services to be provided by the district would require an indication of support from the public.”
It should be noted that Supervisor Moorlach also indicated that “The other alternative is that maybe the city of Los Alamitos can contract with the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.”
As for the Council’s vote last year to include Rossmoor in Los Alamitos’ revised General Plan, Council Member Edgar has indicated that ““A lot of people are looking at this General Plan update as a declaration of war. It’s not. We’re just doing good governance.”
In a comment posted elsewhere, Los Alamitos “Council watchdog” J. M. Ivler sketched out a creative approach to a possible annexation of Rossmoor by Los Alamitos:
The ONLY thing that makes fiscal sense in the area is to:
1) define everything north of Lampson as Los Alamitos
2) increase the Los Alamitos City Council to seven seats
a) assign three seats to the Rossmoor community and four to Los Alamitos for the first eight years
b) assign two of the Los Al seats and one of the Rossmoor seats as “open seats” for the next eight years
c) assign one more seat from each community as an open seat for the next six years
d) assign all seats as open seats at the end of #4Why #1?
Because Rossmoor without a revenue source will kill Los Al. Thus, by eliminating the incursion of the “Sea Beach bubble” that runs up Los Al Blvd to a clean line that is an existing border between the cities, excluding the bubble, the retail centers in that area will provide the financial resources for the joining of the two communities. Without it the financial burdens of Rossmoor are too great for Los Al to take on. f course it would take LAFCO to actually do it to make it work, and doing so would go against the current Supervisors vision of a “supercity” called Seal Beach that includes both Rossmoor and Los Al (but as non-entities).
Ivler was not able to explain his reasoning for item # 2 due to limitations on comment length in the other venue. Perhaps he can share that in a comment here.
If you are able to attend tonight’s “workshop” at Rush Park Auditorium, whether you’re a resident of Rossmoor or of Los Alamitos, please take a few minutes to report your perspective on the meeting in a comment below.
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If you can find out when the replay of t0night’s meeting will air on LosAlTV3, please let us know that as well. RCSD meetings are generally not broadcast live.
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My favorite quote of the night was from POE
“I thought this was an workshop, it’s more like an inquisition”
Okay, I’ll explain #2.
The problem is that Rossmoor thinks of itself as a community,and they have a more active voting populace than Los Al, Thus, if all seven seats were “open”the RCSD would be running Los Al after two elections, and the rest of Los Al would basically be a suburb of Rossmoor (what representation?)
On the other hand, allowing for e slow integration (over 20 years) would allow some of that “we are Rossmoor” to dissipate, and these is a greater chance that there would be a feeling of “this is all our city” rather than “we come from here and will only represent the interests of here.”
Now, will that happen? Well this method of opening up all the seats over time to open seats gives it the best possible hope. After 50 years we still have many people that think they live in New Dutch, or Suburbia, or College Park, or Carrier Row rather than in Los Alamitos, but for the most part, we have also elected a large number of people that do think they live in Los Al and think of the city as theirs, and not in some sub-division.
In general, the only thing that helps people who think of themselves as “separate” think of themselves as a larger group is when they have a chance to be part of that larger group over time and see that the larger group does look out for their interests as much as their own. Thus the slow roll out of all seven seats being open votes rather than district.
In general I don’t favor council districts. It divides the allegiance to the city as whole in favor of individual councilmembers worrying about their next election.
However when you geographically have large residential neighborhoods or divisions in your city, in effect you have “voting districts”.
I like JM’s idea, however while you may have council districts where candidates must live in their district, the voting should be “at large”. That means all candidates would still have to win over a majority in the entire city, not just their own district.
My guess is this situation is not unique (nothing ever is)so a little research may provide an equitable solution.
I believe that so far we are missing the main points about last nite:
1. Councilman Edgar openly came out for the annexation. He lamely tried to say that he was not doing this as a City representative while he was there as a City Representative. The amount of side stepping and the parsing of the language on the lobbying issue was embarrassing.
In addition the hiding behind the need to “update the General Plan” and LAFCO was transparent for all to see.
2 In Mr Edgars mind this annexation is a done deal.He spoke several times about how inevitabe it was. However,it was made clear that Rossmoor wants their independence at all costs.
3.The City was further embarrassed by 2 other Los Al city officials who basically called the two representing us liars in regard to LAFCO. Does some one know the truth?
4.Although they may have been blindsided our representatives should not have allowed themselves to be put at a “defendants ” table. They should insisted on equal seating on the dias. We do not need to be going hat in hand to Rossmoor. It scares me that our representatives did not have the foresight to realize that this was the opening of negotiations with Rossmoor and we took the worst of it in every possible way!
I was there last night and I agree that it was both illuminating and embarrasing. There was a lot of talk that if you listened carefully was not as it was portrayed.
One thing that jumped out at me was that we spend $5.4M on police services and Rossmoor only spends $1.4M a $4M difference.
While I think that Councilman Edgar’s take that we want our police is correct, and I agree with him, that seems to be a huge difference that at least needs to be explored and explained.
TO JM it appears from last nights meeting that the City Charter provides for 7 seats and districts.
There was much, much confusion if the districts were then used for open voting or by district but the final say seemed to be that even though we had districts it was open voting. One citizen even asked our reps if they werent afraid under that system of a Rossmoor take over. as I say it was confusing.
I do agree that the optimal plan would be to get the shopping center if we agree to annexation and I too question the cost without it.
For all residents of Los Al or Rossmoor who did not attend the RCSD meeting. You can watch it on lATV channel 3, the schedule is below.
RCSD – taped replay at 7pm on Wednesday night following 2nd Tuesday of each month
Additional replays on every Tuesday 12 noon
Thursday – 7am
Sunday – 7am
To everyone:
Thanks for all the reports on Tuesday’s Inquisiti–er, workshop!
To “RCSD meeting.”
Thanks for the info on rebroadcasts of the meeting. Sure looks like Rossmoor doesn’t get the choicer time slots, even though I’ll bet they pay a lot more franchise fees than Los Al does, based on number of residences and average income.
I need your help setting my DVR to record this epic meeting on this Sunday morning’s rebroadcast:
I’ve been busy the last couple days, for reasons you may find surprising if I get the post up I want later today or tomorrow (but “Highlands Guy’s” got a good one I’ve got to get up first), so I didn’t get my DVR set in time for this morning’s rebroadcast of an Inquisition I’m very interested in watching.
So, please help me out. If the rebroadcast of the RCSD meeting starts at 7 a.m. Sunday morning, and the “workshop”/”inquisition” started an hour into the RCSD meeting, if I set my DVR for the time block from 8 – 10 a.m. Sunday morning I should get it all, right? Or did the Inquisition last over 2 hours and/or start early?
By the way, let me just say I can see no benefit whatsoever to Los Alamitos to annexing all of Rossmoor, even if pigs flew, Hell froze over, and Seal Beach gave us all their shopping centers north of Lampson.
For the people of Los Alamitos, it makes about as much sense as signing a ten year solid waste contract with the second highest bidder.
Or narrowing our second busiest and possibly most congested street so people will drive slower and get out of their cars and walk to Ganahl Lumber to pick up drywall, or to the chiropractor when their back hurts too much to walk, or to the SOUTHLAND Credit Union.
Or allowing Tenet to build a yet 4th Medical Office Building without adding a square foot to their overcrowded hospital.
Or “filing” for almost 2 years the Planning Commission’s strong recommendation to begin moving towards retail zoning on our two arteries.
Or skipping over the #1 vote-getter in November’s election to make the # 2 vote-getter Mayor Pro Tem.
And who would ever do any of those things?
I would also like to see the real numbers for both cities police services. However, I don’t know if Los Al numbers would be correct.
At the last budget meeting (April 2010) Edgar told the finance director he wanted a monthly report. I have not seen a monthly report at one city council meeting since the April public report.
That finance director is no longer with the city in fact it was the next day that she was gone. Who is minding the store? NO PUBLIC DISCUSSION, WHY???
Nor have I seen an independent audit that was requested by residents and council member Mejia. WHY???
Wow. Richard, where did those numbers come from? I know that Rossmoor has been trying to determine what is paid for police services from the county for years with their (and our) County Supervisor being non-responsive.
What was Henry’s (Taboda) take on finally having the numbers? I have to assume that it was Henry who shared that data since he has been the one attempting to get it and I wasn’t there.
With such a massive underpayment for police services (compared to what Los Al, Cypress or Seal Beach is paying) it is understandable why the services are as poor as they are (this says nothing about the Sheriff’s department and the service that they as individuals provide, but when you seriously understaff the community, then services are a “you get what you pay for”).
Yes, I think Rossmoor should consider outsourcing police services (to Los Al, Seal Beach, Long Beach, whomever), but at that rate they would be hard pressed to find anyone willing to take on a 7x24x365 with regular patrols and the response times we have in Los Al.
Final note, let’s be 100% stright about this. Any effort in any way to attempt to get the Seal Beach City Line redrawn at Lampson will be met with massive stiff resistance from Seal Beach. Expect a full blown legal fight that will last years (which is why we should be moving on it now, as there is a sense of inevitability that at some point Rossmoor and Los Al may be joined, we must do what we can to secure the financial base to support it).
On the positive side Seal Beach is in Orange County (unlike the issues with the people that live in LB and want to be in Los Al) and that means that there is only one county government to deal with. The county wants to rid itself of Rossmoor, they have placed it in Los Al’s”sphere of influence”, so they have tipped their hand on where they want it to go. If both Rossmoor and Los Al were to make it clear that neither would even consider such a move without the revenue components to support the community, I think we would find a receptive group of County Supervisors who understand that the revenue components are the only thing that would ensure that the resulting community was a viable entity.
Rossmoor is a spoiled child who just doesn’t want to grow up and support itself. Why would I say that? Because they had a chance to become a city, govern themselves, and they voted it down. As long as you live in your parents house you live by their rules.
Rossmoor needs to grow up and take care of themselves. Los Alamitos can not afford Rossmoor with that coveted corner or not. You can not survive on a car wash, blockbuster, Polly’s, etc. That would all be gone, if Los Al takes control.
Why do the leaders of Los Alamitos have in mind for that corner. What is the plan? Where is the transparency?
Rossmoor you better rethink that city thing.
Interesting.I sit corrected.I got an e-mail that stated that Henry did not provide the numbers for the costs to Rossmoor for police services, but that Mr.Edgar provided that data.
Must be nice that Edgar can get data from his good buddy Supervisor John that the residents of Rossmoor couldn’t get for, as I understand it, years.
Does anyone in Los Al city hall have any idea how bad it looks that we have data about Rossmoor’s finances that they couldn’t even get?
Old Sayings, I love em.
I think it was Richard Murphy CPA at a council meeting that recalled the old saying,
“The figures don’t lie and liars figure”
Cost of police services in Rossmoor should not be too difficult to estimate with a fairly high degree of accuracy. At least by someone with experience in that area.
Los Alamitos is comprised of high density apartments,scattered residential and commercial areas. On the other hand Rossmoor is entirely residential, including (for all intents and purposes) the little commercial corner.
I find it hard to believe $1.4 mil for 2 cars ($40K each) and maybe 6-7 officers($100K each)to man 3 shifts.
Another old saying: “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts”. or the updated Art DeBolt version, “Beware of politicians offering to hire a consultant to help with a decision”.
And from Wilt Chamberlin as he was nearly bankrupt, “Get a good accountant and sign your own checks.”
And the best of all from Ronald Reagan,
“Trust but verify”
To DAVE they are showing the workshop first, at least so far. So set your DVD roecrder for 7am Sunday morning. It runs a little over two hours.
Watch every minutes of it. it will explain/answer many questions you have had and will have in the future as a Los Al resident.
Thanks to all the community members who attended the meeting.
I also want to thank resident Gerri Mejia for getting up and setting a few things straight.
I did get up to speak and wanted to make it very clear to the RSCD and the residents not to trust anything Troy or Marilyn says. And I was right. At the end they finally admitted that they were really not there to have a “workshop” but that they would be looking at annexation of Rossmoor (in not so many words).
I truly believe that annexation has to be a decision reached by both communities. Unfortunately, we have had such a difficult time working together because of prior council and now this council who just can’t tell the truth. The lies continue. I do have to say though it was VERY interesting listening to Poe and Edgar speak and give their presentation.
I will just leave it at it was “EXTREMELY” revealing. Especially from Troy as his ego can’t seem to shut him up and Marilyn just loves to hear herself speak but doesn’t really realize what is coming out.
Well my onion is almost completely peeled. I can’t wait to see the core inside.
Dave — re: your comment “Sure looks like Rossmoor doesn’t get the choicer time slots, even though I’ll bet they pay a lot more franchise fees than Los Al does…”
First issue — “choicer time slots.” Each local governmental entity gets equal representation on Los Al TV — two replays per week at 7am. One replay a week at 12 noon. One prime-time tape-delayed replay per week. The exception is the Los Al City Council which is carried live, because it can be.
Re: fees, Los Al TV PEG fees ($1 per household per month) for Los Alamitos residents totaled about $26,000 last year — and will be less this year (cable subscribers are dropping nationwide as more and more people get their TV from the internet — especially younger viewers). In addition, the cable companies pay Los Al TV around $18,000 (increased 5% each year) to carry Rossmoor RCSD meetings, and to provide Los Al TV coverage to Rossmoor.
Rossmoor residents do pay more fees for their cable bills(they subscribe to more services so their total fees are higher), but all that money unfortunately goes to the county, not to Rossmoor or to Los Al TV.
And for the record, all the money goes into the city’s Los Al TV fund. The city has ALL oversight of that money.
Larry–
Thanks so much for the enlightening information.
My observation regarding time slots was an offhand comment, based in part on my awareness that, as you indicated, Rossmoor’s cable franchise fees, like their sales tax revenues, go directly to the County. I should have made that clearer.
For the record, my observation was just that, and was not intended to criticize LosAlTV3. I have always found Larry Strawther to be a helpful, diplomatic, and diligent gentleman committed to his vision for LosAlTV3.
Just to clarify a couple matters in my previous post… Re: Los Al TV and government meetings. The prime-time replay is on the soonest available prime-time (7pm or 8pm) spot after the live meeting. Since the RCSD and LAUSD Boards meet less frequently, there are obviously fewer prime-time airings, so in effect it is not absolutely equal.
Thanks Larry for taking the time to explain the set up.
Larry said; “Rossmoor residents do pay more fees for their cable bills(they subscribe to more services so their total fees are higher), but all that money unfortunately goes to the county, not to Rossmoor or to Los Al TV.”
another reason to become their own city?????
1) Thanks Larry for delivering FACTS rather than hypothesis.
2) Does the OC need another small city that is riding on the bring of a financial crisis?
Take the time to consider that unlike Seal Beach, which has development options, or Los Al, which would have development options if the JFTB were BRAC’d, Rossmoor is truly landlocked. As a fully developed community there is little that can be done to change the makeup of it’s revenue.
Unless the County were to redraw the city lines of Seal Beach to throw the tax base from Rossmoor Center into the City of Rossmoor, the revenue opportunities and long term financial outlook for such cityhood are really a choice between “bad and worse”. It was really for the best that cityhood lost in the last election, as creating cityhood and then failing would have far worse consequences for the community (being told that they are part of Los Al or Seal Beach) than not doing anything yet.
Rossmoor leadership has to accept that the County wants to divest themselves of the area and work on a plan to set their own future. That may mean that they should start to work with the surrounding cities to come up with a long term plan that is best for all those involved, and then work with the county to make it happen.
The fact is that Los Al wouldn’t want to take on Rossmoor because of the same revenue problems that Rossmoor faces in becoming it’s own city. Los Al doesn’t have the capability to take on the addition financial burdens without offsetting revenue.
On the other hand, the city that does have access to all the revenue, with the ownership of the two shopping centers north of Lampson, has indicated that it has no desire to take the financial burdens of the residential community when it already has all the benefits of the retail tax base without the financial burdens of the residential area.
Now the county has the “power” and the ability to redefine that whomever takes the residential area will also get the two retail tax complexes to support it.
This gives Seal Beach the motivation to consider the loss of that retail and decide that they would rather take on the costs associated to the residential than lose the retail tax base, and it allows Los Alamitos the ability to say that they would be willing to take on Rossmoor as the retail tax base more than covers the costs of the community.
That would then leave the choice up to a series of popular votes. The first by Los Al and Seal Beach residents as to whether they wish to have the community incorporated into their city, and then a vote by the residents of Rossmoor an where they would like to be.
While I have opinions on which would be in the long term best interests of Rossmoor, they are opinions, not facts, and they would add nothing to the discussion. But, unless the County ties the sales tax base from the retail north of Lampson to the residential community, there is really nothing there that any of the surrounding communities would want (it’s not that we (Los Al) don’t like you guys (we do), but would you let someone come into your home if you knew before hand that the person would drag you down financially?).
So, the best play that could be made at this time is an effort to tie the retail north of Lampson to go with the Rossmoor homeowners as part of whatever community they choose to become part of.
The lady that asked if Ms.Mejia being at the meeting was a violation of the Brown Act was Del Clark. This lady sat on the School Board for many years and knows the Brown Act. As Mr.Taboada is not a City Attorney, I don’t think anyone got the correct answer for Mejia being there, and being allowed to speak.
I think its amazing that Mrs.Driscoll is really talking about herself and Ms.Mejia regarding how much Mr.Edgar and Mrs.Poe spoke. If they could see it on themselves,our meetings would be at least one hour shorter. I’ve heard Mejia go around the same item at least three times!BTW, I’ve heard plenty of lies out of Mejia!
@Sherby,
It was a public meeting. How the heck could Mrs. Mejia be in violation of the Brown Act by attending a public meeting?
In addition, the two people that went to the meeting were not invited there as individuals, but members of the City of Los Alamitos City Council and as the sub-committee that was responsible for the General Plan. As far as I know the sub-committee for the General Plan never once made a formal report back to the City Council (I could be wrong about that, but I don’t see anything in the minutes). Since the members of the sub-committee for the General Plan were reporting back their work to the RCSD I see no reason why any Los Al resident or business owner couldn’t be in attendance.
That’s the introduction to the Brown Act. Edgar and Poe were invited to the RCSD meeting for a “workshop” as representatives of the City of Los Alamitos. In specific to discuss Rossmoor being in the Los Alamitos General Plan that the sub-committee was working on. Mejia, although she is a council member, is also a citizen and had every right to be there as any other citizen.
As for liars and lying, will you join me at City Council this Tuesday to ask that the name of a dishonorable liar be removed from a place of honor, and insist that Mr. Sylvia’s name be removed from City Council conference room?