May
2
Special Council Meeting @ 4 Monday on 2009-10 budget
Filed Under 2009 Issues, City Budget, City Council Meetings, Teamwork
Will our Council ever get beyond the budget?
(Los Alamitos, 5/2/09, by Dave Emerson) Guess what?
The Los Alamitos City Council has another 2-3 hour Special Meeting scheduled at 4 before this Monday’s 7 p.m. regular meeting.
That’s actually down 33% from the three meetings our Mayor called two weekends ago, but I still don’t think anybody can complain about our Council not meeting enough.
What they do with all that time spent in meetings, however, is another matter.
4 p.m. Special Meeting on 2009-2010 budget
I’m actually glad to see the Council devote a separate meeting to the budget for the fiscal year that begins in less than two months. There’s lots of info in three different reports:
- Overview: Staff Report, discussion, and recommendations(2 pages)
- City Manager’s Transmittal Letter for FY 2009-10 Operating and Capital Improvement Program Budget (12 pages, Nita’s analysis & details)
- FY 2009-10 Fund Summary of Resources and Requirements (1 page summary of budget)
I’d recommend clicking on all three, which should open them in three different windows or tabs, then alt-tabbing between them. You might want to begin with # 2, Interim City Manager Nita McKay’s 12 page Transmittal Letter.
Why didn’t we hire this lady?
Once again, our Interim City Manager has shown her commitment, skill, diligence, and competance. After quickly glancing over that Transmittal Letter from Nita McKay, the biggest question in my mind was why was Nita passed over for City Manager? I think there’s a huge benefit to continuity, especially at this point in our city’s history. I’m also a big believer in taking the known over the unknown.
I agree with the CPLA there’s a huge loss every time we transition in a new C.M. So I’m thinking that Jeff Stewart better be able to walk on water to justify not hiring Nita.
That’s not a knock on Mr. Stewart, just reinforcement of the competance I’ve observed every time I’m spoken with, e-mailed, or read something by Nita McKay. I sure hope the new C.M. and the Council are working overtime to find a way to keep Nita on our team, if that’s even possible at this point.
Beyond the Budget
I’ll get up the agenda for the regular meeting later. At first glance, it’s pretty much consent calendar items & second readings of the two ordinances passed two weeks ago & more discussion of the new travel and reimbursement schedule.
To me, just more minutia instead of any visionary focus on the long and even short term needs of the city. So far the new majority has given us lots of budget, city manager, and Los Al TV but, as far as I can recall:
- No discussion or agenda items relating to traffic.
- No substantial discussion of long range planning of any kind.
- No discussion of ways to increase our sales tax base
- No real effort at team building, especially since Council Member Edgar took over as Mayor. Instead, we’ve seen, again and again and again, 4 – 1 or 3 – 1 votes with the concerns of Gerri Mejia and the thousands of citizens who voted for her ignored. Frequently with no discussion whatsoever (as with filling Dean Grose’s seat or appointing Troy as Mayor).
At the end of their 4th full month in charge, our new Council has given us a solid budget assembled by the Interim City Manager they passed over to go outside the city, a good start on making LosAlTv into a separate, nonprofit entity, a divided city, and very little more.
I’m deeply disappointed, but not surprised. It’s pretty much what you can expect with a Council majority of two Cypress businessmen and one Signal Hill businessman, all of whom are fairly new Los Alamitos Residents.
Don’t get me wrong. There are things I really like about all three of these gentlemen. There are things I like about Marilyn Poe as well. But I’m very concerned that it’s going to be very difficult to make real progress on key long term issues with a Council dominated by three out of town businessmen with so little personal history plus one former long term Council Woman with so much. So far, unfortunately, events have been confirming my concern.
That’s what I think–what about you? Please try to disagree agreeable, use family-friendly language, and be diplomatic.
Comments
64 Responses to “Special Council Meeting @ 4 Monday on 2009-10 budget”
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Come on now. She wasn’t hired for the same reason Luci Serlet was let go by King Troy.
Nita won’t play Troy’s game like Rudat did and Mr. Big wants her play.
Nita was hired by Luci and Troy can’t wait to get rid of her. He would have done it already if it weren’t for Dean “The Grose”
BTW-I thought Troy and the CPLA had a major concern about hiring within…I guess that was just words.
My greatest concern is the chatter I hear from the City Staff these days. In an economic downturn you want people who are up to speed on the issues involving the city. The chatter I have been hearing says that we may be facing another exodus of knowledgeable talent due to the selection that was made by the 4-1 council.
This would mark the second time Troy Edgar has been responsible for costing the city money and talent because he messed with the City Manager position.
Will no one hold Mr. Edgar accountable?
Dave: You keep mentioning that two of the councilmen are “Cypress businessmen” and that one is a “Signal Hill” businessman. I did some research on you and discovered that you have interest in many units in Long Beach and that you are considered a Lakewood real estate agent. So if you had won the election would you have been known as the “Lakewood businessman or the Lakewood/Long Beach businessman”? I do not think that someone who does his business outside of Los Al should be throwing stones at the other councilmen as being businessmen at other places than Los Al especially since you yourself ran for council while doing business in other cities yourself.
As far as what the council has been doing since Jan. The budget is by far the most pressing issue. If the previous council’s had not wasted so much money the budget wouldn’t be the issue it is now.
Who is JM talking to at City Hall to know about an “exodus of knowledgeable talent”? If the staff does the excellent job they have been doing, they do not have anything to worry about. However, if staff is talking behind the council’s back, then they do have something to worry about. It’s called insubordination.
What real money did they waste? Give real details about the money they wasted and not just your smear lingo!
It’s old and it’s tired.
The whole state is in a quandry over the economy. As much as you want to blame the previous council…you forget to blame evryone (Poe, Jempsa, Bates, Sylvia, Edgar and Grose).
Example: Edgar’s appeal, Grose,s e-mail, for everyone else (The pool-we will never break even on that one will we?)
I don’t believe Parker, Freeman or Driscoll were on the council when that 150,000 dollar a year albatros was hung around our neck, no they weren’t.
So Lisa, please stop with the bull and lets recall the new Bates group!
What real money did they waste? Give real details about the money they wasted and not just your smear lingo!
It’s old and it’s tired.
The whole state is in a quandry over the economy. As much as you want to blame the previous council…you forget to blame evryone (Poe, Jempsa, Bates, Sylvia, Edgar and Grose).
Example: Edgar’s appeal, Grose,s e-mail, for everyone else (The pool-we will never break even on that one will we?)
I don’t believe Parker, Freeman or Cat were on the council when that 150,000 dollar a year albatros was hung around our neck, no they weren’t.
So Lisa, please stop with the bull and lets recall the new Bates group!
Btw- wasn’t Grose’s idea to spend 60,000 dollars on a traffic study for our city? That was money well spent. He was on the traffic commission at that time…remember?
I know, your memory is selective.
Well, the new city manager will receive $8,000.00 in benefits along with his salary, according to the OCR. Included in those benefits you ask. A CELL PHONE!!
Now just how many of the little people are going to be calling him like Geri was called? Now please notice that I said “was” called and take it from there.
Enough said……
Insubordination is the act of a subordinate deliberately disobeying a lawful order from someone in charge of them. Refusing to perform an action that is unethical or illegal is not insubordination. Refusing to perform an action that is not within the scope of authority of the person issuing the order is not insubordination.
See kids, understanding English is important. If you don’t understand a word and then use it in a sentence to make a point, and you use it wrong, you’ll look foolish. Employees talking about their future plans based on actions taken by the city council is not insubordination, no matter what the under-educated may say. So kids, make sure you take English class seriously as not doing so will make you sound like the person quoted above; foolish.
JM: I once worked at an office where the secretary to the boss was speaking against her boss behind his back. One day he caught her at it an she was fired for insubordination. According to Webster’s New World dictionary insubordination means disobedience. I don’t know where you got your definition from but my dictionary stated it with one word. Speaking against the council or the new City Manager is insubordination.
With the way city’s are laying off workers, or in Long Beach where they are giving them a week off without pay the staff should be grateful they have a good paying job with great benefits. It could be very difficult to find a better one.
Diane: Regarding the cell phone, in case of emergency the city manager needs one to alert his staff. In Gerri’s case, speaking to her nail clients on the phone is not an emergency for the city. Yes, we know this is true because after she left LA Hair someone I know went there to have her nails done by her. This lady was told to call Gerri ON HER CITY CELL PHONE! That’s not city business, that’s beauty business.
And yes Parker and Driscoll along with Mr.Freeman wasted $70,000 on furniture for the new Council office. That whole trailer is another big waste of money. I was told the whole thing with trailer came to $170,000. That is a big waste of money. City Councilmen always worked at home before that and the space used for the trailer was used for city events for the people of the town. There was a parade once for Lynne Cox and the event ended at that very area where that trailer now sits. Although you people state that the fountain and back room makeovers were donated. I was told by a councilperson that the labor was donated by city workers with their arms twisted. It was donate the hours or lose your jobs. The backroom didn’t need a makeover, I saw it many times and it really didn’t need it. Mr Freeman even had gold embossed stationery made for himself when he was Mayor. As my nephew has a printing business and saw the letterhead he told me that the stationary was extremely expensive (over 1k). That’s quite a bit of cash to spend on stationery when its only a figurehead job for a year.
BTW Mr. Ivler, people who I don’t even know have been saying some pretty funny stuff about you but I won’t say what it is because as the saying goes, if you don’t have something nice to state, don’t state anything at all. I’m not doing the namecalling you are. That must mean that your very frustrated at what I’m writing. Aren’t you going to defend Dave, our Long Beach/Lakewood businessman?
Lisa,
I actually am a Los Alamitos, Lakewood, Long Beach, Cypress, Garden Grove, Certitos, etc. businesman. I primarily work out of my home office, which is in Los Alamitos, but I once sold a dry farm in Oklahoma, with the help of a local agent.
In other words, wherever the property is, I can help you get it sold!
Glad you asked.
Thank you Dave. I appreciate it!
Lisa,
Dave is also a 20+ year resident. All three of the male majority members residency don’t even come close to adding up to those 20 years of living here! I don’t even believe that the three have a permanant residence here in town. You seem to use blanket statements that suit you and are blind to the overall truth.
Scott: If you don’t believe 3 of the councilpersons are permanent residents then prove it. I would say that your group also makes blanket statements that are blind to the truth too. Just because someone hasn’t lived here twenty years does not make them ineligible to serve on the council. Since I am constantly told by you group that I am wrong I would urge you to prove your statement about the councilmen’s permanent residency.
Do you have a group?? Are they blind??
Lisa,
#1 – What group do you speak of? I have never been any part of any group. I have tried to learn about the CPLA but, there is no info/website to learn from.
#2 – Why do I have to prove my statement about councilmember residency? You have never proved any of your posts so why do I suddenly now have to prove mine. This proves that things are one way with you. It’s quite entertaining.
I wish that I were in the glass business. I can see that Lisa would need this type of service often as she continually throws stones in her (sorry, her mothers) glass house. I think that you are priceless.
http://www.savelosal.com
You cannot comment, only read the dribble. That site should be removed as it is a “blight” on our city!
Wow,
Thank you for the link. It speaks volumes for the fact that this was given to me by someone that opposes this group.
I had asked for this info before and the CPLA people who are here wouldn’t even forward this info. It took a whole 3 minutes to read the entire website. Three greivences listed that warranted a complete “trashing” of two very dedicated former councilmembers? It lacks any substance. It’s no wonder that nobody wanted to forward this info. I would be ashamed too. Looks like a false facade to get 4 people into power. The last update to this website was Aug. 29, 2008. How convenient, just prior to the elections.
I guess the first point of the neglect of our cities lifeblood, our sales tax generating businesses are all the fault of these two. What has the CPLA done to rectify this neglect? The only thing I seem to remeber is that Mayor Edgar said some very derrogatory remarks about a great new restaraunt that is trying to come to town called the Melting Pot. How do these negative comments help bring more revenue to our town? In the latest list of top sales tax generators in Los Al, restaraunts were some of the best providers for this needed tax money. I guess that’s why there is a recall.
This town needs an enema!
Scott,
While there are many reasons people have given for wanting to recall Troy Edgar (I had all but forgotten his dis’ing The Melting Pot) you will find that the petitioners have settled on one key reason supported by e-mails between Edgar, then acting City Manager Rudat and City Attorney Dean Derleth.
“Personal political benefit?”, you may ask. How can that be proven? Well, Troy’s e-mail of Monday, 8 Sept 2008 12:31 comes from troy@troyedgar.com to Acting City Manager Rudat (at his personal e-mail, not the city e-mail address). On troyedgar.com it states, “Paid for by the Committee to Elect Troy Edgar, ID#1289438″ and a quick check shows that it was last updated after March 2009 [the google cache is from 4/29 at http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:Bd0812zpXFAJ:www.troyedgar.com/+troyedgar.com&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us ] with what is clearly a political message, so I would say it’s safe to say that this is the former and current personal political website for Troy Edgar. And that is before we even look at the actual content of the e-mail, which is a whole different post as it all seems to deal with Ken Parker, a tenant at the building, and not with the landlord who was applying for the permits at all (even going so far as to request Parker and Associates Corporate Charter and Bylaws, but not any other tenant of the landlord’s).
The reason that the Mayor questioned the Melting Pot was that there is a rumor going around town. I heard it too, that Parker had the Melting Pot apply to start their restaurant as an election ploy. Since then I have asked numerous times if anyone has seen anything going on there. I have seen no movement over there myself when I have been across the street numerous times. Notice how a new restaurant has come in where the Burger King used to be (and it looks great). The Melting Pot seems to be missing? How long does it take to put in a new restaurant that was suppose to be in by Nov? That’s why the Mayor was wondering if the Melting Pot is really coming.
Scott: You made a statement that could mean that if it is true, 3 councilman could possibly be prosecuted. That’s why I said prove it. It’s one thing when you tell me I have my facts wrong but its ok for you to do the same? I’m sure if it could be proved, Mr. Ivler would do it.
When I say “your group” I mean Mr.Ivler and his 40 signature gatherers.
BTW, what happened to JM going to the grand jury? I thought we would be hearing about that by now?
Proof? Nah, didn’t think you had any. But hey, we be used to dat from youze ‘ere.
Seems Troy spent a great deal of his time making sure that “nothing nefarious has occurred, or that could even bring the perception that something nefarious has occurred…” when it came to Parker and the period before the election. [and for the record, that is a quote from Rudat on his e-mail to the City Attorney as to the reason Troy had to bring the appeal against Parker's landlord. It had nothing to do with the actual facts, just Ken nefarious Parker.]
I have signature gatherers? 40 of them? WOW! I am so special. I am all powerful! I am the one!. BZZZ. Wrong again oh tenderer of misinformation. Mr. Ivler has no group. Mr Ivler is a public representative for the Petitioners of the recall. I am also a “member” of that group as I signed the initial document. But in no way does any of the other signers “answer to” or take “direction from” me (thus the failed concept of a leader). As for Scott… I don’t know who he is, but I doubt he is one of the original petitioners (and there are 32 of them, not 40) as most of us were very well informed about the CPLA half-truths already.
Any and all questions about the Melting Pot should be directed to the Community Development Department. 562 431-3538 x300.
Do not listen to the head of the CPLA rumors department LISA. Find out for yourself, make a call to city hall and see for yourself what a liar she is.
JM: Or should I say liar JM? On the April 20,2009 blog on April 25,2009 at 12:57p.m. you stated that you have 40 people collecting signatures. You, Mr.Ivler lie and state conjecture as fact. But if its your conjecture its the truth. I guess having only 32 people makes you a braggart and possibly a fool for when you yourself wrote 40! How’s the grand jury coming or is that another episode of your bragging?
Wow Lisa – you’re on FIRE!!!
Here’s a repost of what you referenced (which is JM’s response to Robert K Ohler) Oh, and JM’s “big lie” is in the 4th paragraph.
JM Ivler on April 25th, 2009 12:57 pm
Since I understand that Mr. Iver’s petition is worded and formated correctly, I am wondering exactly how many signatures are required?
1750
Do you think you have a good shot at reaching your goal?
40 people collecting 50 signatures each from 200 home walk lists should just about do it. That should be possible in 90 days.
How long do you think before you are able to submit the petition, along with the signatures?
We have 90 days. I would hope to be able to do it in far less. The goal is 250 signatures MORE than required (10% is recommended in the recall booklet from the SOS).
What would be the next step?
1) Signature collection.
2) Once the amount has been reached I have promised that I would go to a City Council Meeting and announce it BEFORE handing then to the City Clerk. At that meeting I will cal for Troy to resign rather than have a costly special election. I know, based on his comments in the appointment, that Ken Stephens will also call for Troy to resign rather than pay for a special election. (Right Ken? You did sort of box yourself in on this one.)
IF all goes as you wish, any guess at how long it would be before Mayor Edgar is gone?
If he does the right thing? The night we show up with the signed petitions. If not the process will continue and at the next meeting they would have to set up a special election, open the ballot for his replacement, etc. I think it’s an additional 2-3 months after we submit the required signatures.
Just trying to get a sense of the viability of this endeavor.
It’s the same type of question we face as a nation right now. The Bush Administration tortured people approved from the highest levels of the government. If you think torture is wrong then you want it to be stopped, which Obama has done. But at the same time, many of us feel that this belief that the Executive branch is above the law dates back to not prosecuting Nixon for his illegal acts. Rummy and Cheney were part of Fords administration and the lesson was, “you can get away with it.” We saw that continue when no one was really punished for Iran-Contra. The lesson was well learned. So now some (Obama) are saying we should ignore (not punish) the past and “move on”. Well, the lesson there is again, that the executive Branch is above the law. Bad lesson. People have to be held accountable for their actions.
In this case Mr. Edgar used his position to use taxpayer money for personal political gain. Yes, it would be easier to “move on.” and suck it up, but it was wrong. We didn’t go after Bates when he resigned and we should have continued to go after him for the Aquatics center (see Mr. Underwood for all the details that were dropped from printing after he resigned), because the lessons learned there were that you could get away with it in Los Al. There must be accountability. That is what this is about.
And, IF Mayor Edgar is removed, would the Council again submit names for replacement?
If he resigns, yes. If there is a full recall and special election. No.
If I remember correctly, Pete received the most votes for your online poll. Does anyone know if he would interested in being on the Council? Has anyone asked him about it? Does he have a group of supporters, or does anyone know if he would be interested in receiving community support to help him onto the Council? Don’t know him at all, but I certainly respected his manner and decorum at the March 2nd Council Meeting. I know Brad Sheridan is a good man, but between his committments to his family and law practice, would he have the time to be a Council Member? Or does Pete? Just wondering.
In a special election the ballot would have 2 items. (1) Should Troy be recalled and (2) Which of these candidates should replace him. If he resigns I would expect to see the same process we just had followed again.
Aren’t you glad that there is some transparency here?
Robert K Ohler on April 24th, 2009 9:33 pm Since I understand that Mr. Iver’s petition is worded and formated correctly, I am wondering exactly how many signatures are required? Do you think you have a good shot at reaching your goal? How long do you think before you are able to submit the petition, along with the signatures? What would be the next step? IF all goes as you wish, any guess at how long it would be before Mayor Edgar is gone? Just trying to get a sense of the viability of this endeavor. And, IF Mayor Edgar is removed, would the Council again submit names for replacement? If I remember correctly, Pete received the most votes for your online poll. Does anyone know if he would interested in being on the Council? Has anyone asked him about it? Does he have a group of supporters, or does anyone know if he would be interested in receiving community support to help him onto the Council? Don’t know him at all, but I certainly respected his manner and decorum at the March 2nd Council Meeting. I know Brad Sheridan is a good man, but between his committments to his family and law practice, would he have the time to be a Council Member? Or does Pete? Just wondering.
Wouldn’t it be better to have the special election so we could vote to get rid of Edgar AND at the same time have names on the ballot to vote for a person replace him?
I do not want our present council appointing any of more of their friends to the council. The residents need to VOTE for the next councilperson to replace Edgar!!!
If he resigns then we won’t have the chance to vote for who the residents want.
Gee Lisa…
That 40 people? You mean when I answered a question if it would be possible to collect the 1750 signatures and I said that it should be based on 40 people walking 200 homes each over a 90 day period collecting 50 signatures each? You mean my simple math projection in answer to a question if it was possible? That statement that explained that YES it was possible and providing an example of how it could be done? That’s your “evidence” that I stated that I had 40 people collecting signatures?
I can see why you are so “fact challenged”. Go back and re-read it Lisa. Pretend you have the ability to read and understand what took place. I was asked if I thought the petitioners had a chance to collect the required number of signatures (and that was the prior question I answered, that 1750 were required). I said that it was possible and gave an example of how it could be done.
The key English word there is “should”. As in “should just about do it” and “should be possible”.
Really, Lisa, if English is your primary language one would hope that you could use and understand it better. When you find me stating “The Petitioners will have 40 people collecting signatures.” then you can say that I stated a “fact” that there would be 40 people collecting signatures. Since I don’t believe you will find that I ever stated that you will have a real hard time coming up with the “fact” that I did.
So, are you a serial liar, or just under-educated and unable to understand English as a first and primary language?
Special elections cost money. The Petitioners were rather specific in what they said when the whole process started. It would be best if Mr. Edgar would step down on his own, Based on my conversations with the Petitioners I spoke with, most did not believe that would be the case. Based on my conversations with Mr. Edgar I believe them to be correct in their assumptions that he will not step down. In that case we would be faced with a special election.
I am watching the CC budget meeting right now. Troy Edgar just commented on the City Attorney fees.
He would like to once again cut the fee for the attorney.
He said that city council members or commissioners shouldn’t be able to call the city attorneys with questions. I agree to the point that it should go through the city manager.
I would like to point out that when our now Mayor Edgar was a councilmember in 2008 (right before the election) he racked up a few thousand dollars for his personal appeal on a planned sign program.
He brought this appeal forward as a resident who just so happens to also sit on the city council.
He did not pay the appeal fee when he submitted the appeal, which any resident would have to do. He then used the time of the City Manager to email the City Attorney to use his time to “better frame his appeal”. All of that was on taxpayer dollars and is the reason for the RECALL.
He misused taxpayer dollars and his power as a councilperson to go after the landlord of Ken Parker.
During the appeal process, which Edgar LOST, the city council voted to make these emails public. Anyone who wishes to see them can see them.
JM: If you would stop having writer’s diarrhea you would know what you wrote. That didn’t sound like a math projection. You like to brag and don’t remember what you have stated.Mr.Ivler you are dreaming if you think Troy should resign. If you by any chance get 1750 signatures, by your petition you and you alone will be costing the City the election. As Lisa asked, you bragged that you were going to the grand jury? Why won’t you answer the question? What you really are is full of S++t!
I could be mistaken, but am I the only reader that thinks the (im)poster “Let the council do its job” is the same person as “Lisa” and “Los Al Citizen” ????
If this is correct, then it is sooooo tragically funny and classic that she would post under another identity and make reference to a post from “Lisa” to bolster the original post.
(Lisa or “Let the council do its job” – please identify the post from JM Ivler that stated that he was going to the Grand Jury. All I could find were: Los Al Citizen [aka Lisa] referenced the Grand Jury on March 21; JM Ivler suggested that the City turn over emails to the OC Grand Jury on March 21; and Marty Sherwood mentioned the Grand Jury on March 23. I could not find the post from JM Ivler that stated he was going to the Grand Jury)
((It would be a riot if “Marty Sherwood” and “Lisa” the same poster too. If so, then the only one person writing about the Grand Jury would be Lisa!))
Apologies in advance to “Let the council do its job” and “Marty Sherwood” if my impressions are incorrect – your writing style and use of punctuation is very similar to “Los Al Citizen” and “Lisa”
Gee, Lisa or Carol, did you forget to change back to your real identity or is this just another new one because you can’t handle the truth?
Well, Lisa or Carol, it seems like warren and others didn’t have a problem seeing it for what I wrote. Maybe if you took a basic English class you would be able to see what I wrote and what others who have an above third grade comprehension could see.
You know, if you weren’t hiding behind anonymity I would actually think that this bravado had some value. As it is both Warren and I were able to state that there was never a claim that there were 40 people canvassing. There was a question about whether it would be possible and I indicated that 40 people in 90 days should be able to gather 50 signatures each, so yes, it was very possible.
I have stated that I hope, if the Petitioners gather the required signatures, that he would resign. I believe the Petitioners, if they gather over 2000 signatures, have proven to Troy that more people want him to go than who voted for him. If he chooses to ignore that message, then that is his call. If he chooses to force the city to pay for his personal political foibles, then that’s his call.
That’s interesting logic. The people sign the petition saying Troy should be held accountable. We get over 2000 registered Los Alamitos voters (since that is the number the Petitioners are shooting for), more than 500 over those that voted to put Troy in office, and me, lil old JM Ivler is solely responsible for Troy’s decision to not step down?
I guess you had to post this anonymously since you read how utterly foolish that sounds and just couldn’t have your real name associated with it.
Basic logic escapes you doesn’t it? Let’s try some simple sentences. In order to start the process of a recall 20 Petitioners were needed. 32 Petitioners were submitted. Yet somehow this recall is all about JM Ivler in your fevered little imagination. Once the City Clerk is provided the signatures, and the Petitioners have indicated that they will attempt to submit over 2000 even though only 1750 are required, the person responsible for any special election in your mind is still JM Ivler.
I’m surprised you don’t claim that JM Ivler is responsible for Troy sending the e-mail to Rudat. That JM Ivler is responsible for Rudat and the City Attorney helping Troy. That JM Ivler is responsible for Troy asking for Parker and Associates Corporate Charter and Bylaws in an appeal against Parker’s new landlord. Heck in your world I’m surprised that JM Ivler isn’t responsible for 9/11.
Dearest Lisa or Carol, you do realize that most people who read these comments will look at your little anon posting personal attack and think that you’re gutless wonders. But please, do keep on posting. You are the best advertising for the Petitioners and the recall than we could ever want. You keep on ranting and the canvassers will keep on giving out the URL to Dave’s website whenever someone asks for more information. The more people that come here and are exposed to the truth, and to you, the better the drive to get signatures will do.
Keep on posting kiddies, either under anon’s or under your real names. Keep on posting.
J.M.
What is really important about someones real identity? These are real Los Al citizens taking time to voice their opinions. I would rather know what a person is truly thinking than have some candy coated response because a real name was used and the person was worried about public scutiny. It is admirable that you use your name in this blog, instead of Met00 as in the past, but most folks do not want there blog inputs to become their complete identity when walking the streets of Los Al. Lets here from anonimous and real names alike, afterall if we eliminated the “Fake” namers from this blog we would only have participation from about (5) people.
Robert,
I have no problem with anon’s. I do have a bit of an issue taking personal attacks seriously when someone won’t do it under their real name.
Go back and read what “Let the council do its job on May 4th, 2009 8:18 pm” posted. Is there any piece of that post which adds any real value and is not a personal attack on me? Nope. This is no different than someone coming in the dark of night an TPing my home. It doesn’t take guts. It’s childish, immature and shows a total lack of anything even slightly resembling character.
Yes, coming out, speaking your mind and attaching your real name or a real identity to it is a hard thing to do for some people. But if you are going to attack someone’s character and want to be taken seriously, then it is the right thing to do.
As for Met00… that’s about as “real” an identity as JM Ivler. If you were to do a google search you would find posts like http://www.sculpture.net/community/showthread.php?t=1315 from me back in 2006 under that name. a quick check of some like http://forums.oscommerce.com/index.php?showuser=43 show an avatar that is a dead giveaway to me (and it even lists my real name on the side). If you were to look at usenet newsgroups you would see I have been using met00 as my handle in news since ’92 or something. The thing about met00 is that it is not really an anon as it can be tracked back to me in about 60 seconds.
The overall point is, and this is something of a metapost on posting behavior (way off-topic for fixing Los Al), that having an alias is fine, but anon flamers (or even people that create second and third aliases to support their flaming) are really useless pieces of trash. They generally add no value to a topic, and when they write in the style and form of other current posters, detract from the value that those posters may have added (please note that only Carol and Lisa gave referred to my postings as the runny outcome/waste of the digestive tract, so the reference in the anon post seems to point back to them, as well as format as Warren pointed out – thus the referencing pointer back to them by both Warren and I).
Lisa,
Again you prove my earlier point. It’s OK for you to print your statements (lies) but, everyone else has to prove their statements. Again you are priceless. It’s obvious that “playing nice with others” is not one of your strong points. Calling JM a liar when he always picks apart every statement and proves them will back this.
As to the residency issue, there are way to many questions unanswered. Troy Edgar, lives in Greenbrook. I know that but, for how long? Long enough for him to qualify to be mayor? Not in my book. I’ve never heard him address the length of time he’s lived here. Ken Stephans, has never said where he lives just that he is a apartment renter in town (In the Apt. Area one is led to believe). Renter of what, a PO box? He slipped at last nights meeting and stated that he travels north on Lexington to Cerritos every day. Why? His Cypress business is accessible from the Los
Al side of Cypress and his home, if in the Apts., wouldn’t show that he needs to travel on Lexington to Cerritos everyday. Why does he travel to Cypress everyday? Way too many open questions about his residency that have not been answered or proven. Dean Zarkos, what could be said about him? His residency explanation during his public interview was very shaky and full of holes. Listing a girlfriends Los al residence doesn’t qualify you for a council seat. Until that theory is dis-proven he is suspect. I think this would be a good thing for those that investigate these things to look into. Maybe then the real healing could begin as the mayor always states.
As far as JM, I have never met him. I also did not sign the original petition for this recall.
It is very convenient that you have your theories disproven and then change your identity to continue spewing your un-backed statements as “Let the Council do it’s job”. I hope that you are getting the help at the therapist across the street from the future Melting Pot like you let out of the bag. I applaud you for getting help.
Lisa, I hope that when you call the glass repair shops that you use one in Los Alamitos. Lord knows we could use the sales tax revenue.
Why didn’t YOU let the last council do its job?
You want us to let this council do its job. What is different now than last year?
CPLA got up at every meeting to bitch and moan why should residents be silent now?
Scott, any time you want to drop over for a cigar, you are more than welcome. :-)
Carol, Since you have spoken in support of Dean Grose at City councils meetings, I thought you might like to see the article below. It’s not OK in the South and it’s not OK in Los Alamitos. You need to bump up your mind a few decades.
Racist e-mail fells ABC chief
Gov. Perdue, citing ‘offensive and unacceptable’ photo illustration, obtains Doug Fox’s resignation.
By Mark Johnson
mjohnson@charlotteobserver.com
Posted: Wednesday, May. 06, 2009
Douglas A. Fox, North Carolina Alcoholic Beverage Control commissioner.
More Information
Editorial: Wise move, Gov. Perdue
Blog: Fox became a high price for Perdue
Read Fox’s resignation letter (PDF)
RALEIGH Gov. Bev Perdue asked for – and received – the resignation of N.C. Alcoholic Beverage Commission Chairman Doug Fox on Tuesday, just hours after newspapers provided Perdue’s office with a copy of a racist photo illustration sent from Fox’s e-mail address after last November’s election.
The e-mail included an altered photo of the White House that turned the South Lawn into an enormous watermelon patch. The phrase, “There goes the neighborhood …” was printed above the photo.
The e-mail was sent from Fox’s law firm address Nov. 14, 10 days after Barack Obama was elected president. The message, which had been forwarded multiple times by others before reaching Fox, contained no text other than the subject line, “how true.”
Fox made no mention of the e-mail in his resignation letter, suggesting instead that he was leaving voluntarily.
“I believe it is time to surrender the helm to someone new,” Fox wrote.
But Perdue indicated in a statement Tuesday afternoon that the resignation was linked to the e-mail.
“I have accepted Doug Fox’s letter of resignation,” Perdue said. “E-mails and images of this nature are offensive and unacceptable.”
Fox, who was paid $110,000 last year, offered to stay on and help his successor settle in. Perdue, who will appoint a new chairman, declined.
“The resignation will be effective immediately,” said David Kochman, Perdue’s communications director.
The Charlotte Observer and The News & Observer contacted Fox last Thursday through the ABC Commission staff and e-mailed him at his law firm in Wilmington on Monday seeking comment. He did not respond.
Fox also has served for the past year as president of the National Alcohol Beverage Control Association, which represents the 19 states with government-run liquor sales.
On Tuesday morning, the newspapers showed the e-mail to Perdue’s staff and asked for comment.
E-mail went to lobbyist
The lobbyist who received the e-mail from Fox, Bill Hester, refused to speak with the newspapers when contacted by phone and e-mail. He represents Southern Wine & Spirits, a major liquor distributor.
Hester is a veteran of the state ABC system, including 13 years with the Mecklenburg County ABC board, before abruptly retiring as chief executive there in 2003. Hester and the board acknowledged differences and reached a $59,000 settlement – half of his salary – after his departure.
Copies of the altered image of the White House have been bouncing around e-mail boxes across the nation for months. The mayor of a small Southern California city, Los Alamitos, resigned in February amid criticism for sending the same watermelon patch photo.
State Rep. Alma Adams, a Greensboro Democrat and chairwoman of the Legislative Black Caucus, applauded Perdue’s actions.
“That’s pretty tacky,” Adams said of the image. “It’s insulting to our president.”
Fox was appointed by then-Gov. Mike Easley, a Democrat, in 2004. The ABC commission chairman is the state’s top liquor regulator, but the commission’s power is limited. It handles liquor law violation cases, sets prices and runs the state warehouse from which all ABC stores buy their liquor. The stores, though, are run by local ABC boards.
One of the three ABC Commission seats already was vacant.
Fox held event for Perdue
Fox drew attention two years ago for seven trips over two years to domestic and international tourist destinations, such as Aspen, Colo., and Ireland. The trips were funded by the National Alcohol Beverage Control Association, which received more than half of its funding from liquor companies.
During the Democratic primary for governor last year, Fox held a campaign event for Perdue in April at his home that Perdue described as a “meet and greet,” not a fundraiser. The event came two months after an executive with Southern Wine & Spirits e-mailed other liquor brokers asking them to contribute to Perdue’s campaign because she would reappoint Fox and ensure changes that would benefit the industry.
Fox initially denied that he was raising money for Perdue during an interview on the day of the fundraiser. But then he said, “I’m not going to answer that.”
A lawyer for Perdue’s campaign dispatched a letter to the liquor executive shortly after the e-mail went out, telling him the comments were unacceptable and that the campaign would not accept any money raised by the message. Perdue’s campaign later returned more than $5,000 to donors associated with the liquor industry.
Reach Mark Johnson at 919-829-4774
Subscribe to The Charlotte Observer & Earn Miles.
While this article is sadly true and horribly racist, this posting seems unproductive. Lots of snarling and scratching, but if our City is going to tackle the serious issues ahead, wouldn’t it be more productive to suggest solutions rather than highlight past mistakes. LET’S MOVE FORWARD EVERYONE!!!! We’re gong to have a new – and hopefully creative and vital – City Manager, the Council seemed to behave professionally at Monday’s budget workship, focusing on the issues and not each other…. Perhaps things are looking up a little bit? Do we have a $460,000 deficit for 09/10? Who knows? It’s all projections and maybe we’ll end up being a bit better than we were told. Maybe not. Overall, our City has a good team in place, good staff, dedicated Commissioners, and a very involved community. Let’s consider looking towards the horizon – with positive suggestions – rather than searching through our neighbhor’s garbage. There is some very serious work ahead people…. It’s time to pull together. Remember, we either stand together or hang alone….
Robert K. Ohler: Your comment on May 6th, 2009, 9:46PM is the best I have seen on this blog. Thank you.
This is Carol responding to some unknown about the cartoon about the White House and some fruit in front. I still think a mountain was made out of a mole hill because of the politics of the situation. What I can tell you about this that is new is that the cartoon was forwarded by Dean’s niece who is black. One of his family members has adopted a myriad of children from all nations and two of them are black twin girls. They have been raised in a family where culture is stressed over color. She didn’t see anything wrong with it and neither do I.
What you say is true and it would work in a perfect world.
Can you tell me how there will ever be solutions when we are dealing with people from another dimension?
For the most part the CPLA and supporters have never offered any solutions. They have only offered criticisms of former leaders who they don’t see eye to eye with. They have also made “mountains out of molehills”. How is that productive? They don’t even agree with each other.
One CPLA poster said she will never speak to Grose again because she has experienced discrimination in her life.
The other thinks it was a mountain out of a molehill. Well, regardless of HOW it was handled after the fact. It never should have been sent in the first place.
There are probably more elected officials who are wondering if they will get the call because they forwarded that email to others.
Carol, racial biases are insidious. We all have them. The question is not one of “does person A have a racial bias”? but one of how they manage it.
Dean failed to mange his for appropriate social behavior.
[note: As much as I want to believe that I am colour blind and act on the content of a persons character, an independent review of the women I dated before getting married shows that I was colour blind in that I never "didn't date" someone because of their race, but I had a bias in that over 70% of the women I choose to date were Asian. Racial biases always exist to some extent, it's how the individual manages them that is the difference between appropriate and inappropriate social behavior.]
Carol,
Sorry to tell you, but Dean deserved what he got and a whole lot more.
It’s not the only e-mail ever sent by him as a leader of this city. He never deserved to be on the council and it was a great day for Los Al when he resigned.
It also doesn’t surprise me that you, your husband and any other CPLA member would back such a person as Dean.
You’ll be getting yours soon enough just as Dean got his. Have a pleasnt day!
RE Dean Grose:I would like to suggest that nobodys perception is important here. What is important and without dispute is tha Mr. Grose’s actions have caused serious damage to this City.
How are we to win the battle to get vital new business into our city with our current reputation?
Dean’s and the Council’s response will be studied for generations as a case study of what not to do in a crisis.
How do we rebuild our reputation?
Richard, that’s a good question.
It would be interesting to know just how bad the damage to the city was. Have people reconsidered moving a business here because of what happened? Have businesses considered leaving? Was there any affect on the tax base?
Stroke center status at OC hospitals
May 8th, 2009, 6:00 am · 2 Comments · posted by Courtney Perkes
Six Orange County hospitals have become the first stroke-neurology receiving centers, a change that will send patients via ambulance to the places best equipped to care for them.
They are: Fountain Valley Regional Medical Center, Hoag Memorial Hospital Presbyterian, Mission Hospital, St. Joseph Hospital, UCI Medical Center and Western Medical Center in Santa Ana. Mission, UCI and Western Med are also the county’s three trauma centers.
The hospitals provide around-the-clock availability of stroke experts, including neurosurgeons and radiologists. The county already has cardiac receiving centers that offer open-heart surgery and treat patients suffering high-risk heart attacks.
“Bringing patients to a hospital that specializes in treating acute stroke will provide a tremendous advantage in surviving and limiting stroke effects,” said Dr. Samuel Stratton, medical director of emergency medical services, in a statement.
Fountain Valley Regional, pictured above, uses a robot to see stroke patients. UCI has an interventional neuroradiologist available around the clock capable of extracting a stroke-causing blood clot by inserting a catheter into a patient’s arteries.
The fact that Grose got elected speaks volumes about our community. You get the government you deserve.
1. Just because a person tried to get elected in the two previous elections doesn’t mean you should vote for him in the third.
2. Just because a person shows up at your door, puts on a smiling show and asks for your vote doesn’t mean you should elect him.
3. Just because a person does “good works” for the JFTB, charities and business in town doesn’t mean you should elect him. It doesn’t mean that he will do the right job for the residents.
If all you care about is sales tax base then continue to elect businessmen. We now have three business men on the council, one appointed by the council. None of them have a history with Los Al. Any of them could leave here tomorrow without batting an eye.
If your goal is to just survive then keep going in the direction your going. You get the government you deserve.
Do you research before you vote or don’t vote!
Just an Observation says: “3. Just because a person does “good works” for the JFTB, charities and business in town doesn’t mean you should elect him. It doesn’t mean that he will do the right job for the residents.”
“Do you research before you vote or don’t vote!”
My comment: If you do your research and find you have ONE person who has spent considerable time, money and effort in supporting the community and getting to know its citizens and asks for your support and ANOTHER PERSON who has done nothing more than offer himself as a candidate, you tell me you would vote for the ANOTHER PERSON. Give me a break! There would be no research to be done on ANOTHER PERSON because they would have done NOTHING because he is lazy.
Just an oberservation says: “1. Just because a person tried to get elected in the two previous elections doesn’t mean you should vote for him in the third.”
My comment: Sure you should because it shows he is persistent. That person doesn’t give up easily and won’t give up on our city when the going gets tough. He’s been tested under fire and that makes him a leader.
According to your comment, I guess you won’t be supporting Dave Emerson if he decides to run again.
To some unnamed person who said: “You’ll be getting yours soon enough just as Dean got his.” What does this mean? This sounds like a threat and is one reason we should have to use our real names. You wouldn’t say this to me in public where I have witnesses.
To just an oberservation, you said, “If all you care about is (the) sales tax base then continue to elect businessmen”.
My comment: Unless you have an unlimited sum of money that you are willing to dedicate to paying taxes, you’d better care about the amount of sales tax we get and as a start do as much shopping in Los Al as you can. The government will take as much money as you let it and spend it however it wants and never get enough. You sound as naive as President Obama when he talks about a Supreme Court nominee must have “compassion”. The law has to be written justly and a SCJustice must uphold the law and not re-write it because of some so-called compassion. You are beginning to make my teeth ache! I know I will regret saying this but it is the nicest thing I could think to say and still express myself.
Actually, he was tested under fire. Then he as Chairman of the Traffic Commission put a No Left sign at the end of Howard on Lexington even though everyone in Carrier Row and New Dutch said not to do that. He also put stop signs at the end of every street that emptied into Howard in Carrier Row, again against the objection of the residents (we had proposed yields as having non-enforced Stop signs would just teach people to run stop signs).
There was a reason that Dean did so poorly in Carrier Row. We had seen his leadership and knew of his inability to listen.
and not totally off topic
So, I take it you are upset that Obama is saying he won’t prosecute the people in the Bush Administration who authorized torture. Personally I was looking forward to Cheney on the stand in a war crimes trial.
My favorite comment last week was when Condi stated that if the President authorized torture it isn’t torture because the president authorized it. Shades of the Frost-Nixon interview.
And the law can be wrong. Please remember that it was the law that said that mixed races couldn’t marry. Yes, that was once the law. And it was a SCOTUS that said that the law was wrong. Now lot’s of racists said that was legislating from the bench, but it was compassion that led the court to correct a bad law. Just like the law today says that homosexuals don’t have the right to have a State/secular marriage license.
Sometimes the “law” is wrong, not just in a single case, but overall. We need people on the court that understand that. You have to remember that the SCOTUS doesn’t determine if the case they are hearing is right or wrong, their job is to review the law on which the case is based and determine if the law is right or wrong. That takes wisdom AND compassion.
[Note: My father, an attorney, explained that concept of the SCOTUS to me. Since he practiced and appeared twice (I believe) before the nine SCOTUS justices I found his words worth listening to.]
My comment to you is all about KARMA lady. You and God will have to square up sooner then you think and just what are you going to tell GOD? How will you, your husband and other CPLA misfits explain to GOD about how you treated his children?
That’s right, you keep going to St. Hedwig with your hubby and make sure you pray to GOD for forgiveness.
Come on hypocrite, answer to GOD, not to me!
A threat? Aren’t you and your husband the ones that sued your neighbor and wrote horrible lies about two good people.
Seems to me that you’re the only threat to people on this blog.
The only witness you need to worry about is God.
Dear Carol:
1. I didn’t vote for Grose because I did my research. Now there are residents who voted for him that wish they hadn’t. Don’t ask me for names, I will not tell you.
2. In the two years that Grose sat on the council what did he do for the residents? He spoke at great length, but said nothing. He used the “I’m new to this” card from the dais so many times it was ridiculous. After a year you either get it or you don’t.
3. He showed poor judgment forwarding the watermelon email.
4. He continued to show poor judgment by saying he would only step down from the Mayor, but stay on the council.
In your mind he spent money and gave time to the Base, clubs, civic groups and was persistent, so that qualifies him to sit on the council. Well, Hitler did all those things and more. Would you vote for him too?
I am sorry if you retired without the funds to thrive. I think the residents do want leaders who are responsible, but also have a vision for the greater good of the entire community. I personally do not want a council who is just working for one group. I think they should represent the community as a whole.
Now Mr. Grose will have more time to continue his good works for the community, since that’s what it’s really all about Carol.
You know what I mean?…….giving without wanting to be in the spotlight?
Have a blessed Mothers Day
J.M. – I do not have an anonymous posting. I post ONLY under my own name unlike many on this blog.
To the anonymous bloggers who address things to me and then do not sign their name (they must be women – only women are so petty): “Judge not lest ye be judged”. and also “sHe who is without sin may cast the first stone”.
To just an observation – I’m hoping you are still young because then there is still hope for you.
Carol,
If we put our names down or not. The truth is the truth.
Your CPLA group also likes to lie about people, so why would anyone want to put their name on any of these blogs.
To Carol,
I put my name here, and even on some OC Register sites. But, I must admit, there are times I wonder if it’s the wisest course.
So I prefer it if people use at least their first names, but I understand those who don’t. Posts with full names have greater credibility, and there are many who identify themselves here, which I think is helpful.
But there are many, many more who don’t post at all, which is also fine–glad you’re staying informed!
So I appreciate all who stop by here, I especially appreciate those who take the time to post, those who are diplomatic even more, especially those willing to sign their name.
My hope is that, as we discover the things we have in common, trust will grow and the level and effectiveness of discussion will continue to improve.
If you’re reading this, thanks for stopping by.
Dave: You said:
“My hope is that, as we discover the things we have in common, trust will grow and the level and effectiveness of discussion will continue to improve.”
It will never happen. Maybe if people identified themselves truthfully and with the possibility of running into each other at various events, they might be more civil in writing. They are too petty incognito.
Petty?
Isn’t it your CPLA group that basically threw a toothbrush and dollar into the face of a council member and isn’t your husband that sued over wording.
Yet, you think some people might want to meet you at a common event and have a civil discussion as if all the flyers and hateful comments were never made.
That is amazing! Maybe not hating your neighbors in the first place and trying to approach them with a civil discussion about your concerns might have been the action you should have taken 9 months ago.
You say it will never happen. I agree. It will probably never happen until their is a public apolgy at least.
We all know what your group did and why you did it. So cut the bull Carol and stop acting like you’re concerned for everyone and this city.
The e-mails and other informatin spell it out loud and clear.
I doubt we have much in common.
I’ve seen the way you treat people.
Lets see how you taxpayers feel about this article in the OC Register today:
Former Anaheim city manager hits jackpot with pension
May 12th, 2009, 3:00 am · 29 Comments · posted by Tony Saavedra, Register investigative reporter
Few have profited from California’s government retirement system as former Anaheim city manager Jim Ruth — who is one of the highest-paid retirees at $219,045 a year.
Ruth, 73, continues working, earning another $225,000 annually from another local agency.
Even he says government retirements need to be reformed.
“They’ve got to look at some way to restructure the system,” said Ruth. “When you look at the cost of that system, I don’t think we can any longer afford that.”
Not that he’s willing to cut his pension.
“I got up everyday, went out and earned my money.”
Public workers in California enjoy pensions nearly equal to their salaries — guaranteed by taxpayers and available as early as age 50. If the funding falls short, the taxpayers pay the difference.
Ruth is the 13th highest -paid retiree in the California Public Employees’ Retirement System.
He worked for Anaheim for 22 years, ultimately leading efforts to expand the Disneyland resort and build what is now the Honda Center.
He went on to become interim chief executive officer of Orange County — at $205,000 a year for two years. Under his stewardship, the county approved a lucrative raise in retirement benefits, effective retroactively, for general workers.
He now is at the helm of the $601 million Orange County Sanitation District, earning $225,000 — which includes a $43,443 raise last September. That means he makes nearly $450,000 a year in pay and retirement.
Ruth doesn’t view his arrangement as double-dipping.
“I haven’t gone out looking for jobs. People come to me and ask me for help,” he said. “Some people play golf everyday. Some people enjoy working.”
Just ahead of Ruth on the CalPERS list — and the highest-paid in Orange County — is former Newport Beach Police Chief Robert McDonell, who pulls down $221,554 a year since his retirement in 2007.
McDonell came to the city in 1993 to replace former Chief Arb Campbell, who was accused by female officers of running a department rife with sexual harassment.
McDonell was credited with restoring morale and bringing back order to the police force – until a recent lawsuit accused him of fostering a homophobic climate and favoring officers who shared his deep religious beliefs.
Sgt. Neil Harvey, who filed the lawsuit, was awarded $1.2 million in March after a jury concluded that he was harassed with false accusations of being homosexual.
The state’s top retiree, of course, is the Huntington Beach man/retired Vernon official who collects a $500,000 pension – while under indictment. Read that story here.
Is the CPLA on this one?
I’m sure that the $300+ dollars a month that the ousted council members earned from Los Al is a lot more important to the CPLA and how about those huge pensions and medical benefits they received?(Oh yeah, they didn’t earn any pension or get a maedical package.).
Sad to see that we are paying for this kind of abuse and we can’t do anything about it, but in our own little city for political and personal gain we can smear a couple of council members who were practically volunteering their time to improve the city and taking on civic duties that most citizens never attempt to do.
Come on Chuck and Carol, go get our tax dollars back. Get those flyers out and get those nasty city managers and police chiefs.
Come on LATA (Los Alamitos Taxpayers and Assassinators)! You’ve got have a least a couple bucks for a paper flyer that you can deliver door to door.
Um folks, that battle is over.
They won.
Today the effort is to hold Troy responsible for his actions in using the City Manager and the City Attorney for personal political gain. That effort is the recall. Sign the petition. Have friends and neighbors sign the petition. Most of the people circulating recall petitions now have copies of the e-mail that shows that Troy’s work on the appeal was all political. Read the e-mails.
CPLA and LATA, Briggeman funded efforts, were bad, and they were effective. The people that were behind them are, in my opinion, bad people. Like people that thought that there was ever an excuse to torture, these people believe in situational ethics. That the ends justify the means. I find people that have that belief are “bad people” and in general want to have little to do with them.
I used to think that debate could be reasoned. I don’t any more. When I said that going into Iraq was wrong, I was labeled a traitor. The fact that I was proven right by time doesn’t change the history of how people treated me for having a justified opinion that differed from theirs.
Carol may want to “make up” and “play nice”, but the reality is that the CPLA/LATA people put the poison in the well. You don’t get a free ride. We don’t have to move on. What you did was wrong. The ends didn’t justify the means. And many of us won’t forgive and forget that you crossed the line.