Jan
26
Los Al Base to go in new BRAC round(s)?
Filed Under 2012 Issues, Planning & Zoning, The Base, Traffic
(1/26/2012, Los Alamitos) Earlier today the word was that Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta (left, with General Martin Dempsey, Joint Chiefs Chairman) would seek two new rounds of military base closures, in 2013 and 2015.
Ultimately, Panetta’s announcement wasn’t quite a specific, but did include a strong recommendation for more military base closures. As the New York Times put it, “Pentagon Plan Includes Base Closings and Smaller Raises.”
Bipartisan opposition sprung up immediately in Congress. Michigan Democrat Senator Carl Levin, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, told reporters that until the United States shut down some of its bases in Europe, “I’m not going to be able to support” closing bases in America.
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The Republican Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, California Representative Howard P. McKeon went even further:
These cuts reflect President Obama’s vision of an America that is weakened, not strengthened, by our men and women in uniform. To be clear, the impacts of these cuts are far deeper than Congress envisioned.
Nonetheless, the nation’s bloated budget deficit makes a more efficient, dare we say a “leaner, meaner” military a virtual certainty.
What’s it mean for Los Alamitos?
Our Joint Forces Base is run by the Army, and since the Army’s ground forces are to bear the brunt of the troop reductions Panetta is seeking, it appears that Army Bases are more apt to be closed, so closure of Los Al’s Base certainly can’t be ruled out.
In the last two rounds of “BRAC” Military Base Reductions, the desires of the local community played a significant part in the process. An alert reader just posted a link to a report from The Patch of Seal Beach residents complaining about Joint Forces flight paths.
If nothing else, the impending BRAC III (or is it IV?) might provide motivation for the Base to more carefully address local concerns. Or it might provide motivation to import more helicopters from the desert, L.A. County, or wherever in an effort to justify their existence.
At this month’s Planning Commission Meeting The Joint Forces Training Base was listed as item H under the “Land Use and Aesthetics” in the preliminary list of issues to “serve as the foundation for discussion with the community at a future open house/workshop.”
Regardless of whether the community supports or opposes the continuation of our Joint Forces Training Base, it may well be closed down or dramatically reduced in scope and possibly land area.
It seems to me that a proactive approach would put a major issue for our future like this ahead of, say, investigating if Council Member Kusumoto’s letter asking to be recused from the trash talks was a nefarious means of leaking secret data to Art DeBolt. (See “Does this letter violate the Brown Act?“)
Can City officials bring the community together for an open minded, respectful discussion of the possibilities? Will they even try? Can Troy Edgar put Los Alamitos’ best interests ahead of the larger Long Beach Congressional District he is running to represent? What is in Los Alamitos’ best interest? What is in the best interest of America given the spiraling deficit?
What do you think?
Related posts:
- Base Announces End to Composting Project
- Meeting for Vets at Base this Thursday
- Heather Hagan leaves Community Relations position at The Base
- Noise alert: Cal Guard helicopter training through Sept. 5 @ Los Al Base
Comments
19 Responses to “Los Al Base to go in new BRAC round(s)?”
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I like the JFTB. I like what it represents. I appreciate the work there. And since moving relatively close by, quite frankly, I like the open space it offers. And they have been a good neighbor for many years. But the reality is that we are not in the decision making process of whether to keep it operational or not. What we can do though is be prepared for the possibility of its closure.
The best way to accomplish this is to chime in on the Los Alamitos General Plan. It is a living document that can guide the course of action on any future development within our city. And, the JFTB property is within our city. Contact the folks in City Hall to see how you can get your thoughts known and help guide our future.
The life of a BRAC…
1) Based is listed for BRAC
2) Other federal agencies get a shot at the land
3) State gets a shot at the land, but there are limited State uses
4) County gets a shot at the land, but there are limited county uses
5) City gets the land
Now the problem. Cypress claims that it’s theirs, Garden Grove claims that it is theirs and Seal Beach claims that it is theirs. Los Al, whom it’s boundaries fall under, says it’s theirs.
Cypress shows up with their attorneys and a willingness to fight in court, as does Seal Beach. Both cities present plans that have the base broken down, zoned, streets, etc. Los Al shows up with our attorney and has NOTHING (but a good snivel and whine about how it’s ours and our neighbors are meanies).
Guess who starts out in a losing position?
Now that the BRAC has been announced, the City of Los Alamitos should put together a special committee to do land plan and management for the JFTB in case of BRAC.
Of course this would require a City Council that is forward looking and Los Alamitos has a LONG LONG history of not doing that. Look at the LART, or at the Rossmoor Center and Target Centers and you can see just how well we FAIL at doing proactive planning.
So, expect the JFTB if BRAC’d to end up 45% Cypress, 45% Seal beach and 10% Los Al. Because that’s how the City of Los Alamitos City Council rolls. But you can count on the City Council members to cry over the spilled milk afterwards… to no avail… Because that’s what they do, and have been doing, for over 50 years. And they play the victim card better than any other city leadership around.
So let’s get them a bunch of pearls to clutch and hankies to twist.
You are so wrong JB. Parkewood, and a large building on Lampson both are in Los Alamitos. The base would mostly go to Los Al.
Sorry JM. I didn’t mean to mess with your name.
The JFTB, Parkewood, and the CSU Chancellor’s building is solely located in the City of Los Alamitos. Please see the following site for LAFCO’s Sphere of Influence map for Los Alamitos, illustrating both the City boundary as well as that of the Sphere of Influence. The City of Seal Beach operates Arbor Park with a lease from the base, but the park is still within our City limits. Should the JFTB be BRAC’d, surrounding cities will have opportunity to comment on any plans the City of Los Alamitos should develop.
http://oclafco.org/docs/pdf/LosAlamitos.pdf
I agree with JM Ivler when he says: “Of course this would require a City Council that is forward looking and Los Alamitos has a LONG LONG history of not doing that. Look at the LART, or at the Rossmoor Center and Target Centers and you can see just how well we FAIL at doing proactive planning.”
Look at our present City Council and they are doing nothing to acquire the “Fourth Corner”. They are no better than previous City Councils; all five of them.
Sorry Bingo, I don’t think stealing the land from our smaller neighbors counts as doing something positive for the future.
I do think developing a complete zoned layout of the JFTB would be doing something positive for the future.
Personally, I would love to see the City Council put together a temporary committee that would be responsible for laying out the property. By working with Mr. Mendoza they could come up with three to five potential plans that could then be kept by the city to hold against the day that the base is BRAC’d. Every 7-10 years the committee would be re-established to review and update the plans to take into consideration issues like greenspace, home development, educational needs, increased low income housing issues (changes in State law), etc.
Then if the base is BRAC’d we can go to the table with some plans on how best to address the needs of the current, and new community.
Total cost? Mr. Mendoza’s time.
Heck, that is a committee that even I would apply to participate on. It’s about growing Los Al and the cities future. Imagine being able to create a high-income (Rossmoor) component along with a nice retail income component (along Lampson), add new schools to support the growing community and new parkland.
Heck I would even go so far as to suggest that one plan involve “home exchanges” where we offer people living in carrier row and new dutch home swaps into the new area, and then we re-zone that entire section along Katella into retail.
[yeah that's a wild idea, but think about the benefits to the City tax base... and properly done as mixed retail with residential lofts it also offers a great chance to creat moderate income housing that meets the state and federal standards as we develop new higher income housing in the JFTB area behind the highlands... yeah, I have though about a planned community utilizing the FJTB land since the last BRAC]
Transparency Wonk,
Thanks for the info and the link. You always seem on top of things!
JM,
Thanks for the info, and for reminding us of our sad history of not being proactive enough. If the Council majority hasn’t learned from their mistakes, perhaps it’s time for the people to either turn up the heat or make some changes this November.
As for our neighbors, have Cypress, G.G., & S.B. already made noises that they should get a piece of the Base if it is closed, or are you speculating.
Thanks to you both for your contributions!
To: JM Ivler
If acquiring the “Fourth Corner” would be stealing land from a smaller neighbor and would be a wrong thing to do, then how can you criticize our forefathers for not acquiring the Rossmoor Shopping Center? Why wouldn’t that be stealing land from a smaller neighbor?
To #2 above.
It all comes down to communities “locked” into their limits for growth. Cypress needs about 7-10K new residents to move to the next highest level on the Federal benefits scale. Land with low income housing on it would help them do just that. GG needs more revenue generation. Having a large sales revenue generator off the 405 would make then very happy.As for SB, they would be able to throw more revenue generation at their north border, and you know anything they can do to crap on the north side of the hill is okay by them.
Yes, I can see all three cities making a play for large chunks of the property if not all of it (in Cypress’ case).
To Bingo, (1 up above).
The owner of the Rossmoor Shopping Center was looking for a “home” outside the County. We should have worked to be that home. The same is NOT the case with the land grab being done right now by the Los Al Council majority. The property owners didn’t approach us and say that they wanted to be part of Los Al. Big difference.
It is my understanding (not verified) that a majority of property owners in an area to be annexed must vote in favor annexation.
Before Rossmoor or the “fourth corner’ could be annexed a majority of the property owners would have to vote to go to Los Alamitos or Seal Beach. I doubt that will happen in the near future.
Years ago I am told the owner of the race track property (LART) all 300 acres of it wanted to be annexed by Los Al. The forward thinking council at that time didn’t want a race track in the city, so they went to Cypress.
How ironic, the name is Los Alamitos Race Track, its mailing address and zip code is Los Alamitos, but the location and the revenue is Cypress.
No future planning for retail along Katella, choke off Los Al Blvd and miss another opportunity for meaningful long range planning of the JFTB.
Those who ignore our history are doomed to repeat it. (That would make a great old saying)
The Race Track joined Cypress in 1956 4 years before the City of Los Alamitos even existed so there was no City Council to make a decision at the time.
There was a Chamber of Commerce (formally inc. 1947) and a Sewer District (approved by voters in 1953) which performed some of the functions of the city.
In my research on Frank Vessels, by some reports he wanted an advantageous sewer and water hook-up to the track. In 1955 the expansion of Anaheim, Buena Park and Garden grove was motivating all areas in West OC to incorporate before being gobbled up, including the dairy farmers of what are now La Palma, Cypress and Cerritos and the people and business of the unincorporated town of Los Alamitos.
In discussions with the Los Al people, the latter reportedly felt they couldn’t afford to forward fund this investment. The leaders of the Cypress group reportedly offered this and a couple other incentives to Vessels. He signed both incorporation petitions, but delayed meeting with the Los Alamitos incorporators long enough to make sure their application was submitted after Cypress, and give Cypress the legal advantage.
The story they didn’t want a race track in the city is absolutely false. The Chamber’s Incorporation Committee (headed by Jack L. Weaver — of Weaver School fame) went to great lengths to get the track in the city, and there are numerous newspaper articles at the time that show this.
Ironically, though, years later the by-now-incorporated Los Al leaders had not learned their forward funding lesson.
In the Video History of Los Alamitos former mayor Chuck Long says this reluctance to take on the financial debt of forward funding a sewer system was also the reason the city of Los Alamitos did not annex the Rossmoor Center and College Park East, thus leaving the way open for Seal Beach.
Larry,
Wow–great stuff! I love history, and there’s no more relevent history than the history of our own town. Thanks!
Of course, it’s easy to criticize our founders in hindsight. At least they had the foresight to incorporate,before Seal Beach or Cypress gobbled us up.
I can see how they felt a small town couldn’t take on major sewer commitments, but sure wish they’d taken the long view and been willing to spend what looked like big money back then for much bigger money now.
Our community, voters and leaders alike, need to learn from our history and apply the lessons of hindsight to give our town a better future.
I think I should made your comment into a separate post–lots of good history. Anybody have anything to add? Larry’s not the only Los Al history buff who visits this site. All perspectives, diplomatically expressed, are welcome.
And, Larry, how does one view the video history of Los Al you referred to?
Dave — All the Video History episodes are on the CSMP Youtube site — http://www.youtube.com/csmptv.
The specific reference mentioned is in Episode 10. The direct link is –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RXmMCIXQrZE#t=916s
And I’d like to add that I thought the Video series host and co-producer Myrt Perisho did a great job in getting little details like this on the record for future generations.
Thnk you Larry Strawther for exposing Art Debolt and JM Ivler to be the liars that they are.
My intent was not to “expose” anyone. I just think it doesn’t help the process if any side uses inaccurate information to buttress their argument.
CHUCKIE!
Let’s see, what did I say?
and what did Larry say?
Short form.
Me: “Of course this would require a City Council that is forward looking and Los Alamitos has a LONG LONG history of not doing that”
Larry: “Ironically, though, years later the by-now-incorporated Los Al leaders had not learned their forward funding lesson.”
Isn’t it amazing that Larry exposed me by providing substantial detail to what I said. Detail that is appreciated by the site owner, and myself.
Unlike you CHUCKIE, I don’t get paid by the trashman to lie and smear the good people of Los Al that choose to serve our community.
Oh, and look at this from Art… and try to do it without parsing his words…
I was told that too at one time when I asked an old resident why it was called the “Los Alamitos Race Track”, but is located in Cypress. It appears to be the urban legend that gets told and retold.
Larry, by including the details here where it will be indexed by google, has done all the residents of the community a favor by making a searchable record, so the next time someone looks for the answer, it won’t be the urban legend from a neighbor, but the accurate story Larry supplied.
Of course you and accuracy have a fleeting acquaintance Chuckie. You still haven’t explained your last rant at the council where you claimed that Art and I did Citizens for the money. Got any facts to back that lie up yet?
Thank you for not lying like Ivler is still doing.
Chuckie, why not put your name on your posts? Oh that’s right, you are a lying sack of #$%^. You took Briggeman money to publish lies about three good people, Documented lies that you published to every household in Los Alamitos.
Put you name on your posts and point out where I lied. You can’t. In fact, Larry’s post and mine both point out the same basic flaw, that our city leadership fails to learn from past mistakes.
Weren’t you a part of that failed leadership? Why, yes you were. That explains a great deal. The truth will set you free, so admit you’re an incompetent old man who has lost his marbles and thinks the model for his life is the “get off my lawn” character from Scooby-Doo.