Aug
4
Los Al Council continues Medical Center EIR & Base truck issues
Filed Under 2009 Issues, City Council Meetings, Planning & Zoning, Teamwork, The Base
Council takes a step back from immediate confrontation with Base over recycling trucks
(8/4/09, Los Alamitos) At a lengthy but relatively non contentions meeting Monday night, the Los Alamitos City Council deferred decisions on two hot topics by continuing them for at least two weeks.
It’s been a while since I’ve actually made it to a Los Alamitos City Council meeting, and I was surprised atthe efforts by Council Members to work together with each other and the citizens speaking from the floor for the overall good of the community. The Council seems to be moving towards becoming that team that works together that I’ve always hoped for.
I was especially impressed by Mayor Edgar and Council Member Mejia’s ability to diplomatically work through each other’s concerns, and also the Mayor’s efforts to understand and address the concerns of the citizens bringing comments.
While several secondary issues passed, the two issues that took the most time were both continued for at least two weeks.
Los Alamitos Medical Center Expansion Plans
In an effort to kick off the process for long term planning by Tenet Health’s Los Alamitos Medical Center (LAMC) a proposal was placed on the consent calendar to proceed with the hiring of a firm chosen by Tenet to prepare the Environmental Impact Report simultaneous with the development of the long term plan.
Surprisingly, this item was placed on the Consent Calendar as a routine sort of item, but it generated the most public comment. Concerns were expressed about the LAMC’s prior contact, alleged breach of a prior commitment to build a parking structure, and a possible effort to fast track this to avoid the results of the recently approved SKAG study of a comercial overlays for Katella and Los Alamitos Blvd.
Although Mayor Edgar and Development Director Steve Mendoza both appeared eager to move the item forward, after the audience concerns were expressed both seemed to agree to continue the item so that several issues could be addressed by staff. Council Member Ken Stephens expressed appreciation for the historical perspectives provided by speakers Art Debolt, Jody Schloss, John Underwood, and yours truly. Council Member Dean Zarkos described the situation as “trying to untangle a spagetti bowl of issues.”
In the end, the motion to continue was passed unanimously. Afterwards, I remarked to John Underwood about how surprised I was at the Council’s willingness to address the concerns of the citizens. John wisely observed that was evidence of “the power of the people.” It does show that it pays to show up with well documented facts and a diplomatic attitude when an agenda item concerns you.
Lexington Truck Limit/Base Recycling
Another hot issue was also steered away from the fast track, in response to concerns of citizens and Council Members, and awaiting a meeting later this week arranged by the Base.
Mayor Edgar, as reported here, had been pushing the posting of the 4 ton truck limit on Lexington, but he opened the discussion by suggesting it might be best to wait and see what develops at a meeting this Thursday at the Base of the City Managers of Los Alamitos, Cypress, and Seal Beach. He also reported on a meeting he had with the interim Base Commander who made it clear he was going to take a more formal approach, with his attorneys present for everything. Mayor Edgar pointed out that Major General Harrel will become the Commanding Officer for the entire California National Guard in six months, so we might want to try to cultivate a positive relationship with him.
After much discussion the Council unanimously voted to continue the issue until after the City Manager’s meeting.
Pool Committee and Public Comments
At my request, JM Ivlar posted the complete text of his remarks on the LAMC and Base issues as well as concerns about the lack of fund raising by the non-profit that is supposed to relieve the city of operating costs for the Pool on the Base. Click here for his detailed comments on all 3 items. In additon, former Planning Commission Chairman Art DeBolt earlier today posted some interesting thoughts about the lack of records of work on Lexington. Click here for Art’s comment.
There’s much more to report from the lengthy meeting. Perhaps you have something you observed from watching it in person or on Los Al TV. As always, your reporting, thoughts, comments and observations are welcome. Please try to maintain a diplomatic tone and family friendly language, darn it!
Comments
26 Responses to “Los Al Council continues Medical Center EIR & Base truck issues”
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It seems Dave that you have failed to report on another item that seemed to die with a whimper and not a bang. Obviously your attempt to recall Mayor Edgar has failed. It would have shown some integrity on your part and Mr. Ivler’s to have admitted to your defeat in achieving your initial aim in getting rid of the Mayor. Did you think that people just forgot about that issue? Dave, you and Ivler made a big issue about how the Mayor fought Parker’s sign, when the Mayor was only doing his job.
You have also failed to report that the Commissioners from the past Council were allowed to remain. That included one who had signed your petition. I think that shows that this Council is trying to get along with your people.
I think that Mr.Debolt missed a big problem with the Composting. I am talking about fire. I was the only person to even ask a question regarding fire at the General’s dog and pony show. My question was not fully answered now that I have learned how only big Catepiller tractors are needed to fight a fire if one starts. Even at the meeting before last Monday the Base’s representative was talking about using water to fight such a fire. If we have a fire there, it could endanger many houses in Los Al. You did not see the fireman slam out of the Council meeting after stating that he felt this composting was a bad idea and about how he saw a fire at a composting area last 1 week. About 20 years ago I saw an electrical fire in the attic of a house in CPE become a major event as at least 6 houses were damaged by fire as it was a windy day.
I also think that Mr.Debolt owes an apology to Mr.Grose for calling him “watermelon boy”. Name calling should not be allowed on this blog. That just shows a certain childish behavior on Mr.Debolt’s part.
When I asked the General about using the Orangewood entrance to the Base, he did not directly answer the question. Since then, I have noticed that no trucks are allowed on that street. The only solution will be for all three entrances to be used. Putting the load on just one street is not the answer. If that happens, people from just that area will always be complaining as Ivler is now complaining about the Shaw trucks.
I would also like to say that while I agree with you about the hospital has taken so many business around the area, I think you and Mr.Ivler’s comtempt for the hospital is wrong. You and Ivler seem to forget what the hospital does, it saves lives. There is no “price” to be attached with saving lives. Recently my dad hemmorhaged to the point that the paramedics thought they were going to lose him. Yes, the hospital did save him and yes, he lives in Los Al. This same hospital also saved my Mom’s life when she had a heart attack as well several years ago. I know of many people who use the hospital and they all live in Los Al. So to make statements like “it doesn’t have trauma center” is asking too much from a relatively small hospital. This hospital cannot be compared with Long Beach Memorial which has always been a major hospital. Also to state that the hospital only serves Leisure World is not correct and insulting to all seniors who live in Los Al. You are suppose to respect seniors not show contempt for them as Mr. Ivler did in his “statement”. As the commercial goes, saving lives is “priceless” to this community and cannot be measured in how much money goes into Los Al’s coffers.
LISA says: It seems Dave that you have failed to report on another item that seemed to die with a whimper and not a bang. Obviously your attempt to recall Mayor Edgar has failed.
It did not fail because it succeeded in showing how the PROCESS works. I believe it got Edgar attentions, he dropped his arrogant attitude and started to treat Councilwoman Mejia and the residents with respect.
As far as the appeal against Mayor Parkers sign he was wrong legally and ethically to bring that forward. He did not follow the proper PROCESS and it was a waste of the cities staff time and the city attorneys time. It cost the taxpayers and for what? I will be waiting for your reply on that one Lisa…..I know you know exactly why he brought that appeal forward right before an election.
Edgar is a smart man who couldn’t have possibly thought he would win that appeal. No, he won much more during an election time at the cost to the taxpayer.
LISA says: You have also failed to report that the Commissioners from the past Council were allowed to remain.
Once again Edgar is a smart man.
LISA says: There is no “price” to be attached with saving lives.
Oh, how wrong you are! Why do you think the hospital has no first class trauma ER. It cost way more money than they are willing to spend.
After a recent car accident on Katella the injured could not be taken to LAMC because they don’t have a first class level trauma center. For every person that you know who was SAVED by the LAMC I can give you names of people who died there.
LISA says: I think that Mr.Debolt missed a big problem with the Composting. I am talking about fire.
Yes Lisa, fire is always a problem and not just with composting. Look what you said about the fire in CPE. Are you now going to want to get rid of all of the homes in CPE? Your neighbor could be storing fireworks in his garage and one day they could blow up.
Does that mean that the world should not ever have a composting pile anywhere? If the OCFA says it is unsafe and needs to be shut down then I think we should listen.
LISA says: I also think that Mr.Debolt owes an apology to Mr.Grose for calling him “watermelon boy”.
I know Mr. De Bolt can answer to this himself, but Mr. Grose will be forever be know as “Watermelon Boy” and that is his own fault, not Mr. De Bolts.
Sorry Lisa,
I admit it was a bit childish, but I thought it a little humorous. I will now try to be more serious. Begin the first sentence of that childish paragraph:
Disgraced Los Alamitos Mayor and National Embarassment…
Lisa,
Good to have you commenting. It’s best to have a broad discussion here that includes all members of the community. You care about Los Alamitos, as does pretty much everyone who takes the time to post here, and I appreciate that.
As for the recall, I actually spent some time discussing what happened and why with Chuck Sylvia before the meeting on Monday night. I’ve also communicated with Mayor Edgar about it.
And I have actually been working on a post on the recall which I hope to get up fairly soon. You’ll have to trust me on that one, but I think you know me well enough to know I wouldn’t lie to you.
What transpired is quite interesting, & I hope to have that post up fairly soon. Maybe we can hold off on the recall discussion until I get my thoughts up, and focus more on the hospital and base issues for now.
Again, welcome back!
Los Al is too small a hospital to be a trauma center. A trauma center must be a large hospital with many surgical specialties, not just general surgeons. A hospital does not need to be a trauma center to save lives. Los Al Hospital saves lives every day. To talk with contempt about it as Dave and Ivler did is unthinkable. Yes, the hospital has problems but what they do is Priceless. It does save lives.
There are plenty of names I have heard mentioned about Mr.Debolt. But I won’t mention them as he has about Dean Grose.
To say that the recall didn’t fail as it got Edgar’s attention is ridiculous. Geri still votes against most measures as she did the meeting before last. You just won’t admit that you LOST. PLAIN and SIMPLE YOU LOST. You must be living in a different city if you think you won!
Regarding the composting, this doesn’t even need a match to catch fire, it can become a fire by spontaneous combustion. Even you firefighter friends should be able to tell you this. The Base will not listen to the Fire Department as they have there own department and do as they please. This is the FEDERAL Govt. not local government. Didn’t you hear the comment Zarkos heard that that the Base will do as they please? You can’t fight the Feds!
It took more than Edgar to vote the old commissioners in. You are putting too much on Edgar. Each Councilman thinks for himself. Yes, Edgar is a smart man,but the other Councilpeople are equally smart.
Dave considers himself a reporter or a quasi-reporter. He should have stated that the recall failed and that the commissioners were reinstated, that’s something Parker and crew would have never done.
After doing some research, the following are the trauma centers in OC: Western Medical Center/Santa Ana with 283 beds. UCI with 462 beds, and Mission with 340 beds. Los Alamitos has 167 Beds. The trauma centers in OC have double to triple the beds of Los Al and have many medical specialties. If you want Los Al to be a trauma center the hospital would have to grow in number of beds and specialties. For example, Los Al does not to any open heart surgeries or transplants. I’m afraid you can’t have a small hospital and have it be a trauma center.
LISA says: To say that the recall didn’t fail as it got Edgar’s attention is ridiculous. Geri still votes against most measures as she did the meeting before last.
I would hope that all Council members vote for or against what is right for the city. I hope you were not implying that Mejia would roll over and play dead because now there is respectful discussion. There have been plenty of 5-0 votes, but I would begin to wonder if all the votes went that way. Or if all were 4-1 as seems to be the case most of the time. That would imply that their is one leader and the rest are sheep.
LISA says: You just won’t admit that you LOST. PLAIN and SIMPLE YOU LOST.
I actually think it was a win/win for everyone. I am looking forward to Dave’s recall post so we can continue our conversation.
Mr. Ivler wrote to me in this blog that there would not be any recall if the following happened: Nita McKay would be the City Manager, Pete Cavajal would be the new City Councilman, there were not many 3-1 votes. Well guess what happened, NONE OF THE ABOVE! As of two weeks ago, Geri was still voting her own nutty way, and we have a great City Manager in Jeff Stewart and a great City Councilman in Dean Zarkos. Mayor Edgar has the same attitude he has always had (maybe you never saw it).Before, your group wanted 5-0 voting, now you say its ok for Geri to vote the way she does. Your group needs to make up its mind on what it wants! I know that Ivler and his troup went around Carrier Row looking for signatures. I was also told that some people told them to get off their property. This tells me that Ivler’s group could not get the signatures required. As I read the blogs from before basically I now come to the same conclusions. If you are too embarrassed to state the truth, big deal, but the people of this town will know the truth about your group. However, will you please use your REAL Name so that I know the person I am writing to has some integrity and honesty about what he writes? Otherwise you are a coward.
Another subject that your group seems to be waffling deals with the Los Alamitos Medical Center. First Ivler wants the Medical Center to go away, now he wants it to be a trauma center. As I stated earlier to be a trauma center means a bigger Los Al Medical Center. Your group and its leadership does not seem to know what it wants at all! Flip flop, Flip Flop!
Lisa,
1. Not sure what my “group” is. I belong to the National Association of Realtors, Boy Scouts of America, the United Auto Workers, Calvary Chapel, Costco (I joined when it was still a “Club”), Kaiser Permanente, and the Los Angeles Teachers’ Credit Union, but I don’t think you’re referring to any of those groups. I used to belong to the Sierra Club and the Crystal Cove Alliance, but times are tough and I didn’t feel I was getting much benefit from my annual dues. If you’re aware of another “group,” Lisa, please tell them to get on the ball and send me my membership card! A list of member benefits would be nice too.
Seriously, I do appreciate your research on trauma centers. I’ve tried to get information from Los Al Medical Center for several days, and am still waiting for a followup call after my first conversation.
Finally, could you do me a favor and maybe stick to the LAMC, Base, and other issues discussed at Monday’s Council Meeting for now (like JM’s discussion of the pool’s non-profit group), and hold of on critiquing my post on the recall until I actually write and post it? Sorry for the delay, but I’m not the fastest writer out there.
Maybe someone from my “group” could help me write it????
Let’s try to respond to all of Lisa’s rants at one time…
I wasn’t aware that Dave was a journalist and that it was his place to report on something that he was only involved in as a petitioner and possibly a signature gatherer. I would love to know what Dave is to “report” as I know that as the person who was speaking for the petitioners I have never been asked anything from Dave or any other intrepid reporter.
Dave, and I were just two of over 30 signatures of “petitioners”. That’s a very big “your” that you are throwing around. As for what there is, or is not, there to report. I believe I made it clear what the process was. If there was anything to report on advancement of the process steps beyond where they were, I would have said something. I don’t believe I ever stated that I was going to give weekly or even monthly reports on the signature gathering efforts (and I couldn’t since I was not involved in managing the effort, although I did gather signatures on my walk list).
I do believe using your political office and city money, time and resources in a political campaign to attack someone running for office is wrong. I said that to every person who I had sign the petition I was circulating. And may I point out that the ONE, and ONLY, point where Troy was right, that Parker’s old sign had to be removed, still, almost a year later has not been “fixed”. Not that it had anything to do with Mr. Parker, as it was the old landlords responsibility… but there it hangs, almost a year later.
“Your people”. Now that says a great deal. “some of my friends are ‘your people’”.
Geeze, Lisa. Let’s see if we can look at a map and look at winds… The reason that the location selected was selected had to do with prevailing winds. Do you know what a prevailing wind is? Good. Then you should understand the risk factors and how they have been mitigated. My guess is that you are at greater risk of life and limb from leaving your residence than any house in Los Alamitos is from a fire generated from the compost.
When I was much younger and was working on the B-2 I was asked to give a risk assessment to AFPRO on the Internet at the B-2 division. I walked in and asked the AFPRO officer if there was a single phone line entering the facility. He said there was. I told him that security had already been compromised, the only question was “by how much.”
Everything in life has dangers. If you want to avoid dangers, die. But as long as you are living there is danger. Now you can be very afraid of all dangers or you can assess risk and be afraid of only those dangers that have a greater propensity for happening. So, when you can show me a study that shows that the risk factors from the compost are greater than say those from taking a shower, I’ll listen. Until then it’s called fear mongering. It is not a debating tactic that most reasonable people use.
As Art said, he could have called him the National Embarrassment, or a racist, or any other of the many terms that seem to fit his behavior. And who here really cares what you think of something that did not, and does not, involve you? Can’t you say “I found Mr Debolt’s comments of Mr. Grose offensive.” and leave it at that. Who are you to say that Mr. Debolt owes Mr. Grose an apology?
I thought the General was quite clear on why the selection of traffic routes were made. I’m sorry to hear that you had some problem that didn’t allow you to understand his clear statements, or the maps provided.
I’m “complaining” about Shaw trucks? My problem is the deal that was cut to ensure Cypress never had to deal with Shaw trucks going through their city, and forced everything down Katella. It’s sort of like the deal that they made with the Los Al citizens about Costco trucks only using Walker. They lied. Costco trucks have no problem using Katella, and they do.
And I really do have to thank Shaw trucks. They were one of the clear and present dangers that we were able to point to when we were fighting for the wall.
Tenant is a for profit organization that has consistently put their interests in generating profit well ahead of what is best for the community. They have broken promises to the community. They have stripped the community of taxable base business and replaced it with well paying tenants to Tenant, but business that pay no taxes.
That’s not contempt. It’s factual.
Hospital’s don’t save lives. Medical professionals do. And if Tenant was so good, my guess is that my health care provider would want me to go there. They have specifically told me not to do so (and when you pay someone $20K/yr and they tell you to NOT use a facility, you would have to be stupid to NOT listen to them).
Sure there is, just ask any insurance provider. They have whole teams of people that do nothing but determine the value of a life and whether they are willing to pay the “price” to save that life.
Actually, based on my PPO insurance, the hospital doesn’t compare favorably with an Urgent Care Center. They would rather have me go to Memorial OR an Urgent Care Center than Los Al. When you don’t compare well with either someone larger, or someone smaller, that says a great deal.
Gee, you are taking offense for EVERYONE today.
Lisa, try the following. Go to Los Al Hospital and state that you want to know the exact cost of a stent placed in the LAD. Good luck getting that. If you were treated at a restaurant the way that you get treated at Los Al Hospital, you would never go back to eat there again. It’s not about the age of the people using the facility, but about the facility itself. It just downright sucks by any measure. If it were not for it’s proximity to a large group of the elderly who it can fleece at will, it would have folded by now. The exact same blood tests at Cedar Sinai are about 10% the cost at Los Alamitos. How do I know? My old PPO insurance asked me to never have them do my blood tests there again (a full lipid panel, A1C and liver). since it was billed at over 10 times the cost of CS. Do you really think that it costs over 10 times as much for those tests at Los Al than it does at Cedars?
Lying to the people who live here multiple times, as they did in the last build out (as explained very well by Mr. Underwood on Monday) says a great deal more about their history here. Their “red carpet” treatment was a kick in the ass for taxpaying business’ that they forced out of the city. In simple terms they are NOT a good corporate citizen historically, and their interest is NOT in providing health care, but in making a profit. And if they have to lie, cheat, steal and hurt the City in order to do so, I have no doubt that they will.
Since I was ONE of many petitioners I don’t see how I could make such a promise. Since I was one of many petition signature gatherers, I don’t see how I could have made any such promise. Thus, I am calling you a liar. I never stated that by doing some specific things that there would be no recall, I didn’t ever have the power to ever stop a recall process, so how could you claim that I would have ever said I could.
The only person who EVER had the ability to effect the recall process was Troy. And you will see that I have written that in this blog many times.
How dare you offend Gerri like that, you owe her an apology.
As I have stated elsewhere, I am not at liberty to pass judgment on that as I have a personal relationship with Mr. Stewart that is outside the scope of his activities as the City Manager. Therefore my judgment would be affected by my personal relationship and even a disclaimer would not suffice to ensure that I didn’t let one opinion have an effect on another.
I must disagree there. I feel that Dean has shown that he is not “great” in my definition of the term “great”.
Pass whatever you are smoking around.
What’s this “your group”? You seem to have this fixation that there is some conspiracy group out there to which those that disagree with you have a secret (or not so secret) membership. Go back to the last post and read Dave’s comments and then read mine. As anyone can see, Dave and I had some very deep disagreements. This does tend to colour your “your group” comments as a bit insane.
I have a “troup”(sic)? I feel so special now. Just to make it clear, and to show how absolutly wrong you are, my walklist was 98% in New Dutch. There were only three homes on it in Carrier Row and I didn’t actually go there as I know that one is a rental (not a resident at the time of the election) and the other two had Poe signs on their lawn this last election (and I believe both also had Grose signs the election before). So what you “know” is 100% full of crap.
Are we going to have to go back and revisit that stuff about hookers on Beach Blvd again? How does this sound? “I was also told that some people in your neighborhood run around naked in the dark of night howling at the moon.”? Hey, did you know that “some people say” that Obama is not an American (okay, those “some people” are truly nut cases, but what the hell. Using the “some people” phrase in a debate is about as useless as tits on a boar).
“Your people” “Ivler’s group” Do you have a problem reading and understanding the English language? Oh, that’s right, we already proved you did ages ago. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to get repetitive.
Well, you know more than me and according to you it’s “Ivler’s group”. I have no idea the total number of signatures gathered. I have no idea if there were “enough” or not. I can tell you how many I gathered, which was more than my fair share and I would like to point out that at a majority of the homes I went to I was able to gather signatures. But that was to be expected since the area that I went to was a solid Cat and Ken area and most of the people didn’t vote for or support the Briggeman slate.
As far s I know there may be one person who has seen all, or most, of the signed petitions. It wasn’t me. I have seen those that I had signed, and that is all. As for delivering the signed petitions, when the due date rolled around I believe I was sitting on a beach in Cabo San Lucas Mexico (or maybe I was sports fishing that day). So, if you have any accurate insider information (Oh damn, I fell off my chair laughing at that one. Using “accurate information” in a request of Lisa. Now that is funny.), please feel free to share it.
Ah, the famous parinoid schitzophrenic “your group” again.
You know I know of five or maybe six definitions for the term “waffling” and none would be interchangeable with your use of the word above. Could you please share with the rest of the world what your definition of waffling is as used in the sentence above? Thank you.
When you have no facts, you just make sh*t up as you go along, right? You have no idea what “Ivler wants”. Heck, Ivler’s wife doesn’t have a real good idea of what “Ivler
wants” so you must be well into the dark (make sure you don’t start that howling at the moon stuff).
But just to share one thing “Ivler wants”, it would be to not have to spend his time correcting the record every time you decide to post misinformation on the blog.
As the saying goes, ” Call me anything you want but don’t call me late for watermellon, I mean dinner”
Mr.Ivler: Let’s take your responses one at a time:1. Mr.Emerson has called himself in many blogs a reporter or quasi-reporter. I laughed at those comments many times. A real reporter must be objective, just ask your friend Jaimmee Fletcher. Mr.Emerson gives us editorials. He only gives us his opinions.
2. You seemed to be giving recall reports up until you filed the recall, therefore it was logical that you would be the one to give the recall updates.
3. When I say your group or your people I mean the people who originally signed your petition. You probably had some sort of meeting with your group when you got most of your initial signatures. If not, they are the usual suspects who will come and make crazy statements like Ms.Williams at Council meetings. I will never forget when she stated “We’re coming for you Troy!” She also pointed her finger dramatically. What a CROCK!
3. That composting pile is dangerous because of fire in a way that your house (unless you have a gas leak)or your car(if it is maintained and running normally)could ever be dangerous. Its called spontaneous combustion. If that pile gets hot enough, and on a hot day it easily could, will blow up in fire by itself. We have no idea how good the employees hired by the base are at maintaining the temperature of that composting pile. I’m surprised Mr.Emerson doesn’t seem worried about it. It’s closer to his home than it is to mine.
3. Mr. Debolt did a childish and mean spirited ploy. After pointing out some valid arguments at the meeting he then starts the namecalling. That was not done in the spirit of getting along. As I said before, I have heard many mean things stated about Mr.DeBolt but I will not stoop to his level.
4. Your stating that you are one of many petitioners is another CROCK. You wrote the petition, you grandstanded before the Council meeting with it, you took it to the City Clerk and used up many hours of her time. It’s too bad the City can’t get back her salary for the time you wasted. Before you say how many hours you spent with her to say it wasn’t long, remember she spent time without you going through the petition. You wasted City money on nothing. Then you have the nerve to say that you were just one of the petitioners. We all know that you and possibly Mr.Emerson were behind this so-called recall. At least take credit for what you did?
5. The General was evasive about my question. He did not state that Orangewood was not a truck route. The General was evasive about many things at that meeting as well as the vendor he chose. He never stated he was going to sell the compost. He stated it would all be used on the base so he could lower his water bill. We all are supportive of the base (except maybe you from what you have written), but be honest and tell the whole truth. The General only told us what he wanted us to know and you fell for it right at the meeting. You were the only one I remember who gave an OK to his project at the meeting like you were the President making a statement from the White House. Nobody cared about you giving your ok to it. You seem to have an inflated idea about how much your opinion counts.
6. That hospital does save lives. Where would the doctors and nurses work? Outside on the ground? Again in your answer you show your contempt for that hospital. You cannot get to Cedar Sinai in an emergency. G_d Forbid you have a heart attack or your children get very sick. That’s the nearest hospital and your insurance has to pay until you are well enough to be transferred. If you think Long Beach Memorial is so great a hospital than you have never had to be a patient there or have a family member be a patient there. When my Mom was there the hospital was filthy! Feces on the floor of the shower and the nurse at Memorial didn’t put in a blood transfusion correctly for a patient and the blood spilled all over the floor and no one cleaned it up. If fact the nurse had to call 911 to get help as there was no help on the floor. As for Cedars didn’t a nurse give the twins of some actor the wrong drug and almost kill them? Probably the reason you can’t go to Los Al is a contract matter, not how good the hospital is. Since you believe there is a cost to a human life as shown by the insurance companies, are your children only worth what the insurance company says they are worth?
You stated that Los Al and Tenant “fleeces the elderly. You are completely incorrect with that statement. Medicare pays for the elderly. The only thing the elderly pay is the copay that is a little over $1K as mandated by the Feds. The elderly only pay a nominal fee for medical tests ($5)if at all. Tenant cannot send a statement for any balance over what Medicare and a Medicare Supplement pay. The only people who do pay a great deal are those people without any insurance. All of the elderly have Medicare.
The only hospitals that charge people a great deal are those owned by a doctor by the name of Prem Reddy. He throws out all contracts when he buys a hospital and goes by his own rules. Dr.Reddy presently owns 1 out of every 10 beds in OC. Dr.Reddy wanted to buy Anaheim Memorial but the state would not allow it. I have heard through the rumor mill that he has tried to buy Los Al twice but was turned down. If you google his name you will see quite a bit about him, but only read sites that are not from this company, they tell the truth about him.
7. I do not owe Geri an apology, she votes No for all kinds of things, from lowering the Council salaries (Because the Attorney General won’t like it) to voting NO on sending the letter to the General for working together (because it would give him more work). Sorry Geri I will not apologize for the reasoning behind your No votes.
8. You will not comment of Jeff Stewart’s work because you go to the same temple? That shows you have no guts to me.
9. Dean Zarkos is a great councilman. He has the guts to ask the tough questions. He asked the General if he was getting money from the Composting. He should ask that question, many,many people were wondering the same thing. Why is the General coming back 10 days a month for the composting when he lives in Vacaville? He states its for the Veteran’s program. BTW, Dean did ask it respectfully, not nasty as some of the bloggers here wrote. Dean is a very forthright person. He states it as he sees it. I know this as I worked with him for years at my former place of employment.
I remember Mr.Debolt not asking questions respectfully of another former general of the Base. I am speaking of General Portante. Mr.Debolt was very insulting to General Portante but that’s ok because Debolt didn’t want the pool. But Mr.Debolt I am told is a regular user of the pool. To me that’s being a hypocrite. Sorry, Mr.Debolt, that’s my opinion.
10.Sorry I know for a fact that people told you or your people to get off their property.
You seem to like hookers. You must know some personally.
11.WoW! You and Dave have deep disagreements? All I see Dave write is Good Job JM! If you two have deep disagreements it never makes it to this website.
12.Now for the best of all, if you were sitting on a beach in Mexico when this recall was due, that shows you had absolutely no intentions of going through with it. In my opinion you are nothing but a rabble rouser and at most this is how you show the local Democratic party how you want to be on the local committee? I hope all your “petitioners” realize you were just making lots of noise and that you don’t really want to accomplish what you say you do want. In other words, in my opinion you had no intention of following through with your threats.
Mr.Ivler: You stated that I lied about what you stated would prevent the recall of Troy Edgar. You stated on this blog on April l3, 2009 8:54 pm. that you told Troy how to “fight” the recall. I have listed before what those things are so I will not repeat myself. I am not a liar I am taking my statements from your own words. You don’t want to take any blame for anything you fail at, but you are right there to take all the credit for anything that you do win at.
What is with all the finger pointing.
I have a finger for you.
Ha Ha, it’s not what you thought.
My thumb!
Take a hike!
JM,
Hey, what’s the deal, you get a troop & take off for the beach in Mexico & I don’t even have a “posse,” and haven’t even made it into the Pacific Ocean yet this summer!
I’m obviously spending way too much time quasi-reporting!
Lisa,
JM & I do disagree–just compare his thoughts and mine on how to respond to the Base recycling trucks runnind through Los Al. Check out the post immediately prior to this one–JM’s comment totally disagreed with my support Mayor Edgar’s aggressive stance against the base’s truck route.
Interestingly enough, after meeting with the new Base C.O. Mayor Edgar’s position moved closer to J.M.’s, with some good reason, as I reported in this post (above).
In any case, Lisa, thanks for taking the time to post–it’s good to get all viewpoints here. Ultimately we all agree that we want what’s best for Los Al, even though we disagree on exactly what that might be. Maybe Gov. Schwarzenegger could invite us all up to Sacramento (or Malibu) to discuss it over a beer?
Joker,
Well done. LOL. Seriously, hiking is one of my favorites, and hot weather like this is the perfect time to get above 7,000 feet and cool off in God’s country, as long as your heart’s in good condition for the altitude. The Palm Springs aerial tram is one of the easiest ways to get high quickly (unless you’ve got one of those medical marijuana prescriptions).
But I digress. . . .
1) Dave is NOT a journalist. He IS a blogger. There are differences, as well as some overlaps between the two.
2)Assuming a road will be straight because the last 100 miles were is a good way to end up dead when it turns on you. As the person tasked with shepherding the petition through the process of becoming one I choose to ensure that there was no misinformation in the public domain by detailing what was happening and what I was doing. I represented the group called “proponents of the recall” while I was doing that. Once I completed my task, I passed control over to the proponents. I picked up a packet that had my walk list and then did that task.
3) (the first “3″) According to the University of Minnesota there is no recorded instances of a properly maintained compost pile erupting into spontaneous combustion. None. So your continued harping on this issue isn’t going to affect much. On the other hand there is a 60% chance that you will be affected negatively in your lifetime by a drunk driver. Hmmm, a less than 1% chance of a spontaneous combustion from the compost verses a over 60% chance of something bad from a drunk diver. And you want to focus on the compost heap?
3) (the second “3″) Mr. Debolt has every right to call Dean Grose a racist. His actions were racist. There was nothing funny about the e-mail except in the context of race. I saw Dean’s e-mail and was disgusted. Dean saw it and thought it was funny and passed it on. So I agree that watermelon boy was racist in his actions. If Art wants to call Dean watermelon boy or whatever, it really is Deans fault that he created the label he has to live with.
4)
Interesting opinion. Since I had political experience having run for office I was asked to do the preliminary work. I did. That meant the paper work as well as the service and being the “face” of the proponents (for instance, the City Clerk had to have one person to send the documents back to, etc. So I agreed to be that one).
As for wasting the City Clerks time. I followed the law and the process stated by law. She followed the law and the process stated by law. How can following the law be “wasting” the City Clerks time? If there was someones time wasted, it was the person who worked at the Registrar of Voters who I had check everything the City Clerk sent back because she had screwed up in the last two elections and I wanted all her work checked to ensure that she didn’t screw up and invalidate the petition in doing so. It’s amazing how foolish someone can sound when they rant and don’t have facts.
5) The general provided information and the sources for that information. I believe in the project (It may have something to do with my daughters non-profit, GreenLightKids, that focuses on green issues) I looked at the data, it matched what I knew to be accurate. I stated my support for the project and the project plan. And unlike the whiny NIMBYs from CPE, I don’t object to the trucks passing my house because I do believe in the project and the project goals.
6) “Hospitals” don’t save lives. Put up a building. Call it a “hospital” and see how many lives you save. On the other hand, take a doctor and put them in a mud and stick shack on the Amazon in Brazil and see how many lives s/he saves. Now, repeat after me “A hospital doesn’t save lives, medical trained staff does.” See, isn’t that simple? Even you should be able to understand that Lisa. I used small words.
Tenant Healthcare is in the business of making money off providing services to people through their facility. But more than that, they make money on providing facilities for people that provide services. Which explains why we have an office space on Katella that they can rent out and make money on verses a multi-story parking lot that would be all cost and no income.
Now, in simple terms, and I’ll type real slow so you can understand it, Tenant is in the business of making money. That’s what they do. And if the best way to do so is to screw the city and the residents, then I fully expect them to do that. If they didn’t they wouldn’t be doing what the shareholders pay them to do, which is make them money.
Did you follow that? A profit making enterprise is supposed to focus on making profits. Tenant is a profit making enterprise (and for the record, Cedars is not).
7) Can’t just say “I was wrong. I’m sorry” can you?
8) Unlike you, I am able to acknowledge when I have conflicts of interest. Since my conflicts of interest on this run rather deep, keeping my mouth shut here is smart. I will continue that policy. This means when I do have a comment, you can trust that I don’t have a conflict of interest that affects my commentary.
9) I had a great conversation with Dean at Vons. I still don’t think he was the best option from the ones given. I don’t think he has been a “great” addition to the council. Is he better than having Grose on? An empty seat was better than having Grose retain his seat.
10) I know for a fact that no one I talked to when I was gathering signatures was rude. So, unless you can get someone who I approached to come on here and say that they told me to get off their property, it’s my word, and I was there, against your word, and you weren’t anywhere close to there.
As for hookers, yep. I worked with them. I helped distribute free condoms on both LA and the OC to stop the spread of HIV.
11) If you were to sit around and listen to Dave and I talk you would see that we share many of the same passions, and many different ones. You would see that we have agreements and disagreements. If you read Dave’s piece you will see he was supportive of what Troy was doing regarding the weight limits. I was not. That is called a disagreement. And amazingly enough, it was played out here, in public, on this web site.
12) You seem to think that I have to put my life on hold. The Cabo vacation with my family was planned and booked well before the petition process was completed and we had a deliver by date from the City Clerk. I’m not going to toss over $3,000 down a rat hole and cancel my vacation. Thus it was made clear that the actual last day that I would need all the petitions handed over to me was well before my time in Cabo if I was to submit them to the City Clerk. That didn’t mean that someone else couldn’t submit them while I was in Cabo. It did mean that I wasn’t about to toss over $3K down the tubes for Troy’s recall.
And finally, you show that even when you write it, you don’t understand English…
You stated
I stated
You then found a post where I stated the same thing earlier. Let’s look at what you said I said in that post.
Now, what part of Troy how to “fight” the recall do you not understand? I never said that I could or would stop the recall process. I told Troy how he could stop the recall process. It has always been in Troys power to do so. I was tasked with a job. I had to do my job. Troy had the ability to affect peoples opinions of him by doing some things. I advised him of what I thought some of the things he should consider doing to affect the recall effort. I never stated that would stop me from doing the task I had taken on. The only way to “stop the recall” was to act in a way that would make people less likely want to sign the petition. That was all within Troys power. Now look at what you wrote and try to understand the English. I told Troy what I thought he could do to avoid/stop the recall. It wouldn’t have ever stopped me from doing what I was doing, I couldn’t ever make that promise. What he could do was affect public opinion and make it harder for us to obtain the required signatures. If he did he would have successfully fought the recall effort.
So rather than twist MY words to try to meet your needs, attempt to learn English to the level necessary to be able to understand what I have written. To be able to understand what YOU have written.
As for taking “blame” for my failures. Look behind the council seats and you will see my failure every time. I take full responsibility for my failure to stop the council from putting that pledge to monotheism behind their seats on the council wall. I failed. I have stated that here and in other venues many times. I am more than willing to accept my failures, especially when I have to look at them every time I’m in Council Chambers.
Now maybe you can say “I’m sorry” to Geri without your need to then justify why you resorted to calling her “nutty”.
There a fire in Winchester…get out your hose!
Questions for Lisa:
Why is it OK for Edgar to waste city time/money on a frivolous appeal…. that he LOST?
And it not OK for JM to use city time/money to get the city clerk to prepare the recall petition properly? That is her job as a city clerk.
If Edgar would have kept up his bad behavior the recall would have continued.
Do you have any idea how much time/money it cost the city for the watermelon email?
Your arguments are ridiculous, after you (God forbid) end up at any other hospital in the area besides LAMC and ( God forbid ) die why don’t you donate your brain to science?
That’s one autopsy I’d like to see. I, of course mean this in the nicest possible way.
The recall against Troy Edgar is the ONLY recall against a Los Alamitos City Council member(s) to fail.
Lisa remembers me not asking questions respectfully of General Portante. That is really taxing my memory. When would Lisa, the general and I be in the same room? I know it was not over a slice of watermellon or even a whole watermellon (couldn’t resist) so it had to be during a city council meeting. I certainly was not disrespectful but the questions were to the point.
This was shortly after I discovered city funds being used to pay bills in the name of the contractor working on the pool remodel that were titled on the warrant register as “Park Supplies”. The Aquatics Foundation had spent all the grant money on the “no bid cost plus 10%” contract and had run out of money.
A little context to my pointed questions.
1. I saw city employees over a two day period weeding and planting flowers in the planters at the entrance to the base and wondered if the base was going to reimburse the city for the materials and the labor.
2. I noticed river rock that was used on the fish pond in front of the pool(one of items on the warrant register)was identical to the river rock in front of the Officers Club/Fiddlers Green remodeled at the same time as the pool. Coincidence?
3. The city owed the base about $80,0000 in utilities. The foundation needed about $80,0000 to finish the remodel. General Portante offered to waive the $80,0000 in utilities provided the city donated $80,000 to the foundation.
I thought it a great idea but I had several questions for the General.
Is the base going to reimburse the city for the flowers and labor to plant them?
Did the base pay for the materials and labor to install the river rock at the club?
Do he have the authority to waive $80,000 that is owed to the State of CA? Or could this be construed as a gift of State funds to the foundtion?
I recommended we get a letter from someone at the state level approving the waiver or we may end up paying later if someone higher up thought this was really a gift of public funds to the foundation “washed” through the city.
We were assured he had the authority and no letter was needed. The then council majority agreed and proceeded with the general’s idea.
Disrespectful? No. Questions that deserved answers? Yes
As to my using the pool being hypocritical?
No. It is a great facility and we all pay for it, why not use it. My objections have nothing to do with the facility but the council majority who misled the people of Los Al.
At the initial meetings about the pool before I was on the council I thought it a great idea but the focus was in the wrong area, waterpolo. The focus should have been on swimming. A lot more participants in swimming at all levels than waterpolo.
Also not being truthful with the public about their inability to use the pool. By definition the pool is a “special interest” pool and cannot be open to the public. It is too deep at the shallow end.
A Foundation created with city funds supposedly to raise money for the maintenance and operation of the pool. The foundation currently sits on $60,000 or more in funds, does no fund raising and does not contribute to the maintenance and operation of the pool. It should be forcibly dissolved and the funds distributed to the pool fund.
Now that the focus is more on swimming and other organized uses. It looks like the pool will be at a break even the next year or so. At least the financial burden to the city may be alleviated.
JM,
Just to be clear, I may have the right to, but, I never said Dean Grose was a racist.
Art,
I stand, or properly since I’m not typing while standing, sit, corrected.
JM: The “experts” hired by the Base for the Compost Pile admitted to me that basically if hot enough, that pile can catch fire on it’s own. That’s the problem, the help they send could be vigilant or could be lazy.
Regarding health care, your lack of knowledge of today’s healthcare is showing. Go talk to any doctor, nurse, or even a pharmacist. That’s why I suggested you read about Dr.Reddy. He owns 1 out of every 10 hospital beds in this county. Not every hospital is a Cedar Sinai. No ambulance, in an emergency will take you there. You’ll be stuck at Los Al or worse, in one of Reddy’s hospitals. La Palma Intercommunity Hospital is owned by him. That’s one of the closest hospitals if Los Al is closed.
Lisa, please do your research. A compost heap of they type on the base, if kept under 7 foot high, has about as much chance of combustion as the gas going into your home. The key is threefold.
(1) HEIGHT (the biggest issue)
(2) Water
(3) Turning
It does not have to be watched, just turned and watered appropriately and kept UNDER 7 feet. None of the heaps that I saw laid out at the base were over 7 feet (using my 6’3″ as the measure of height and the fact that none were taller than I).
The University of MN has a wonderful set of pages describing proper compost methods and safety issues. May I suggest that you take the time to do a bit of research before fear mongering.
As for hospitalization. I carry an emergency card in my wallet at all times that lists the fact that I have two stents (one medicated, one not). It also has instructions that I should be taken to UCI, UCLA, Scrips or CS based on which facility is closest. The odds of me ending up at LAMC or some other chop-shop are between slim and none (the slim part being if I had cut an artery, I guess they might go to Memorial in LB or FV.).
You are aware that you have the right to instruct the ambulance to take you to your chosen facility, aren’t you? And if you have instructions written down on a medical ID card, that they are supposed to follow those instructions unless doing so will kill you. Your lack of knowledge of today’s patients rights in healthcare is showing.
What you just wrote shows how little you know. If the paramedics feel your life is in danger they will take you to one of those hospitals that you hate. If you go to Memorial the experience is worse than Los Al could ever be. I know from experience. You are a very uninformed person who has so much ego that you won’t read about the person I told you to. Especially since you have stents in you. Yes, I know all about that too as my Mom has 18 stents in her as a result of going to Memorial where the staff would not listen. You’re very young to have stents, it would behoove you to listen instead of being so pigheaded. I hope you have plenty of life insurance for your kids, because you won’t be here just because of your ego!
Lisa, welcome to MY world.
You said “You are a very uninformed person who has so much ego that you won’t read about the person I told you to.”
Lisa, your consistent lack of knowledge continues to amaze me. You didn’t do any research on green compost heaps or you would have run into the same information I found. Instead you sowed fear and misinformation that had to be corrected so that people in the public wouldn’t be concerned about something that has almost no chance of happening. Now you are doing the same with health care. You seem to think that somehow, if incapacitated, you lose your rights. Well, you don’t. If you make your wishes known, then they must be filled. Based on where I travel, the hospitals I have listed are all within acceptable distances. All of them have excellent trauma care. All of them accept my insurance.
My guess is you don’t have a living will. You don’t have an emergency card. You don’t understand your options, and spouting misinformation off in this blog seems to satisfy some deep seated need to hurt people.
I have low risk for heart failure (none in the family history, and my heart muscle is in great shape – knock on wood). I do have a blood disorder that causes massive white cell plating and that is made worse from Type 2 Diabetes. For the second I see an Endo every six weeks. For the first I am treated by one of the top 10 heart specialists in the US (he runs the CS cath department). Every year I get a nuclear stress at CS and every three an angiogram. I stent anywhere there is over 75% blockage. In other words, I am on top of my medical conditions (unlike over 85% of the people in the US, many who are walking around with a time bomb in them and think that having a GP primary look at them once a year is enough health care).
Lisa, there aren’t a great many things that interest me that I don’t take the time to study and get all the facts about. My health is one of the biggies. You can make all the claims you want about my ego, but since this is my life, believe me I have taken it very seriously.
To anyone who is reading this, take this story to heart. I was 44 years old and working a high stress job. I was feeling tired and when I walked up steps I noticed that I was getting out of breath. Since this was happening slowly (ie: getting progressively worse over a three year period) I figured that it was due to my overworking and not getting enough exercise. I was wrong. I actually had 85% blockage in my LAD. There is no pain with this so all that stuff about chest pain is worthless. At about 87-90% blockage in the LAD the heart shuts down. For the record this condition is called “the widowmaker” because of the high rates of people who have it not knowing they have it and then dying from it. With or without insurance YOU are in control of your health. In some cases simple tests can provide clues and set red flags for a number potentially life threatening issues. I was lucky that my boss at the time was a MD and he demanded I get a stress test and echo as well as a set of very specific blood tests. This lead to an angiogram and a lifesaving angioplasty. It’s your life, your health. Take control.